Standards?

**gaijin** · Posted On: 8/14/2002 10:57pm

What standards should be used when deciding the value of a martial art? Should we look at how well it would allow one to defend themself from the average Joe (Keep in mind that less than .01% of the population practices MA, so chances are you'll be dealing with the average Joe)? Should we only base its value on how well its practicioners would do in a NHB fight with other stylists? Or should it be based on something else?

For example, I used to study both aikido and judo. Using my aikido, I could easily overcome my large, oafish, and easily angered brother (The average Joe). However, I was usually dissected when I attempted to use aikido on my judoka brethren. The art had much value against the average Joe, but against seasoned fighters (athletes?), it wasn't very useful. What should we, as martial artists, athletes, and/or fighters, use as a standard to measure by?

**Mercurius** · Posted On: 8/15/2002 12:07am

I think something that should be kept in mind when judging a martial art is its effectiveness against a larger, stronger, resisting opponent.

The "average Joe" scale probably wouldn't be a good measure, since a proper martial artist is going to be in better shape than the average Joe.

I say this because a lot of the reason why people study martial arts is so that they can be confident they'll have the edge in a fight against a statistically superior opponent, and if an art can't provide that for them, then there are better choices out there.

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And that's what I call REAL Ultimate Power!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

**10FingersOfDeath** · Posted On: 8/15/2002 1:06am

There's more to it than any of those things.

You can judge a style's value by how it matches up to the reasons you want to take it. That's all there is to it.

A martial arts value will be different for each and every person. Just like some people will argue till their blue in the face for BJJ's value because of it's usefulness in fights, others will do the same for Tae Kwan Do for it's other benefits. Such as it's ability to get people into shape, it's flashy and artistic aspects and it's fairly strict moral code.

There can be no one way to judge a style's value, pretty much decide if it meets your criteria and if anything is missing then it is of lesser value.

**Roidie McDouchebag** · Posted On: 8/15/2002 2:11am

You CAN however judge its practicality by its worth when facing a large, resisting opponent.

However its overall worth lies not only in its practicality but your enjoyment of it. The problem comes when you think it's practical and it isn't.

9chambers · Posted On: 8/15/2002 4:33am

I think instead of deciding what styles are valuable we should try to think about what value a style has - what we can take that from it and use.

Aikido teaches a lot of techniques for using your opponant's wrist. No "small joint manipulation" is legal in the UFC so you won't see that demonstrated there. Some of those techniques can be found in other seizing arts like Chin Na or Hapkido.

What can you learn from Aikido that you can apply in a fight? One thing is the way the wrist works. Look at how you can bend it and why it has the desired effect when you do. The wrist only bends so far when you move it a certain way then it hurts .. that is a lever you can use.

Learn the basic concepts and not just the specific techniques (like a finger pointing at the moon..) and you will someday be on the ground in the guard and get a hold of a guy's wrist and fold it and turn it really fast and hard.. and he will scream out in pain like a little girl as the ligaments in his arm rip apart.

The specific techniques are just illustrations meant to demonstrate certain concepts. Don't concentrate on the specific technique - look at the lever it is teaching you about or the target it is showing you how to strike.. learn about the body.

The momentum techniques in Aikido may not work that well against someone who is an athlete who is crouched and ready - but they might work on him in a day-to-day scenario like he just grabbed your arm to prevent you from leaving a dangerous place.

What works when two really fit athletes who are well trained crouch down in guarded stances and cautiously approach eachother is very limited. That should not be the only scenario you train for by any means.

In a bar a guy isn't going to crouch down and take little steps while feigning and faking punches and tucking his chin under a raised shoulder - he is just going to strut up to you with his chest out and take a swing. In that situation you won't have time to crouch down and get in a stance either. Different movement comes into play in different situations.

Learn about the body.