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  1. #11

    Join Date
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    Melbourne, Australia
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    3,591
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    BJJ
    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    You go BOY!!!

    *sigh* I even sound like a sad white man in text.....

    --------
    Make friends with them until they beg for mercy.
    --------

    Edited by - fingerormoon? on April 03 2003 01:09:48
    The Wastrel - So attractive he HAS to be a woman.
    - Pizdoff

  2. #12

    Join Date
    Mar 2003
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    angola, ny
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    2,040
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    Liu Seong Gung Fu
    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    oh, yes everything is cyclical in nature. but in an intelligent system the clash of thesis vs. anti-thesis creates a new sythesis which lays the basis for the new cycle. its a matter of evolution. but if can be a degenerative cycle as well. this is quite evident in that thread on tma. both you and i made a positive attempt to repair that entropy and i feel that it was quite successful. this in no way changes my viewpoint although it did broaden it.

    peace.

  3. #13

    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    cst
    Posts
    295
    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Wastrel, not to totally kiss ass here, but damn fine posting. Shooter and kuntaokid as well. Hang with me as I re-envent how the English language works, at least in spelling.

    The hang up some find, and leads to the binary classification of arts and techniques, is that if something does not function smoothly the first time it is tried, it lacks merit. That kind of thinking breeds the idea that martial arts have no place in real self-defense and that there is no point in preperation. It can easily lead to the idea that all training of any format is an exersize in futility.

    When you train, you have to realize that not everything is going to function perfectly the first few times it is used. That's why we train. A new driver shouldn't expect to jump in a car and be able to win the Daytona 500 the first time out. They should be practicing and learning the ropes, and accpeting that they are going to get into the wall from time to time until they really get it all worked out. Fighting arts work under the same premiss, if they didn't why would anyoneeven have to train? A few nights could cover everything you would ever concievabely need to know.

    Multiple arts are applicable in the realm of self-defense. Its having the mental ability to shift modes and apply what you have learned in less than ideal situations that I think many people miss. Stepping outside of that knowledge, or willing building barriers between sets of techniques, is where people fail under stress, mentally it just becomes too much to process. So full intergration is key, of seeing things as a complete set and not seperate fields.

    There are many aspects to complete self-defense, and I think Shooter has pinted out, they are differentiated by the needs and desires of the individual. Some people will never need or want more than heightened awareness of their surroundings and situations, or verble de-escalation skills. You take what you want from your training, and its an individual responsibility to make sure you understand what you want when you train so you can maximize the benefits of the time you spend.

    Ok, enough ramblings for now, time for more coffee.

  4. #14
    JKDChick's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2002
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    Canada
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    8,131
    Style
    JKD, BJJ
    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Hands down, the most intellectual posts EVER on this board.

    Congrats, guys, Wastrel.

    (board breaks with a kick)
    "Is that it? I feel like I should bow, or have honor or something."
    -- Buffy the Vampire Slayer, "Once More, With Feeling"
    Monkey Ninjas! Attack!

  5. #15

    Join Date
    Oct 2002
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    My cats breath smells of cat food.
    Taking responsibility for my actions since 1989

  6. #16
    Such as thou art, sometime was I. supporting member
    The Wastrel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
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    Brazilian Jiujitsu
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Osiris,
    Don't focus too much on what I said about motives for training. The truth is that we all have a bit of an obsession with it. The only reason I put it the way I did was to stop the "your aikido can't stop a machete-wielding Mafia goon" nonsense. Ultimately, everybody knows that, and basically, they don't care and it doesn't matter. Do you see what I mean? Everyone's preparing for SOMETHING, but what that is might be very different for each person, and equally valid in that context. i'm really not trying to get too specific about motives. I was trying to make a sort of lateral point.

    **The most miraculous power that can verifiably be attributed to "chi" is its ability to be all things to virtually all people, depending on what version of the superstition they are attempting to defend at any given moment.**
    Normally, I'd say I was grappling, but I was taking down and mounting people, and JFS has kindly informed us that takedowns and being mounted are neither grappling nor anti grappling, so I'm not sure what the **** I was doing. Maybe schroedinger's sparring, where it's neither grappling nor anti-grappling until somoene observes it and collapses the waveform, and then I RNC a cat to death.----fatherdog

  7. #17
    Miguksaram's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
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    Illinois
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    3,525
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    Shorei-ryu & Kumdo & TKD
    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Moderators please lock this thread quickly before it gets dummied down to a flame war. This is by far one of the best threads I have read on this forum in a while.

    Wastrel,

    I see what you are saying and you are correct. Living in the suburbs and teaching suburbanites, their mindset is much different than that of the inner city student. Why? Because violent crimes aren't so prevalent in the burbs. So they will train in the Aikido, TKD, HKD more than the Thai boxing or BJJ or MMA type stuff. Are they any less effective? Who knows. This has been said before and I'll say it again. It boils down to what happens at the time of the attack. Will you freeze up with the knowledge you have? What happens in the time when you heart pounds and you are shaking from all the adrenaline, will you remember your training or will you resorts to just plain ol' street fighting?

    Jeremy M. Talbott
    http://www.koreanma.homestead.com/index.html
    http://www.martialscience.homestead.com/home.html
    Jeremy M. Talbott

    Quote Originally Posted by Phrost
    "Bullshido isn't just a place to hang out when you're browsing the net. We really are trying to accomplish something fucking extraordinary here that nobody's ever had the balls to do before."
    Quote Originally Posted by D.Murray
    "Which is better, to learn the truth, or to enjoy the illusion of being right when you are not?"
    Quote Originally Posted by hangooknamja88 View Post
    My definition of Ki is our energy. it's rather hard to explain it in words. It's not some mystical type of energy like white people...


    SUPPORT BULLSHIDO!

  8. #18
    Such as thou art, sometime was I. supporting member
    The Wastrel's Avatar
    Join Date
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    Brazilian Jiujitsu
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Shooter,
    I'm arguing on your side. You just don't realize it.

    **The most miraculous power that can verifiably be attributed to "chi" is its ability to be all things to virtually all people, depending on what version of the superstition they are attempting to defend at any given moment.**
    Normally, I'd say I was grappling, but I was taking down and mounting people, and JFS has kindly informed us that takedowns and being mounted are neither grappling nor anti grappling, so I'm not sure what the **** I was doing. Maybe schroedinger's sparring, where it's neither grappling nor anti-grappling until somoene observes it and collapses the waveform, and then I RNC a cat to death.----fatherdog

  9. #19
    CrimsonTiger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
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    Toronto, Canada
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    3,578
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    Karate/Muay Thai
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    "Hmmmm..." *CrimsonTiger picks up an object from the ground* "Who dropped this gauntlet?"

    Wastrel,

    You are wrong.

    Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. WRONG!

    Your concept is pretty, but the application is flawed. Everyone compares, it is human nature to compare and envy and compete. That is how these situations arose in the first place. To ask any less is to deny our basic human instincts.

    Society is a heirarchy. Like it or not, as social beings we STRIVE on such structure. So not everyone can be "equally valid". Some pursuits are more worthy than others. Some die because they are no longer relevant. As is true in any other facet of life, it also is true in the martial arts.

    As context-sensitive, ever-changing entities, the martial arts are in a constant state of flux. Despite our efforts to maintain their essence, they must continually strive to adjust and adapt to new environments and situations depending on culture, technology, physiology...hell, even climate. As with all things, they are thus subject to Darwinian fundamental principles...many people will dedicate their lives to pursuits which are irrelevant, ineffective or even worse, outright deceptions based on lies and ignorance. Under stress of a challenge, these people (or more generally, these arts) will die off. PERIOD. As such, I cannot view them with the same validity as something that is tried, tested and true.

    No matter what, there is only one test that I can accept, and that is the acid test of reality. It doesn't need to be "the ultimate", but it does need to reach certain basic minimums for me to accept it as valid.

    In theory, your ideas make sense and seem logical, but in application, they open the door for nothing more than mediocrity. Another sad byproduct of Darwinian Evolution...strength in numbers. The bulk of your bell curve will only satisfy the bare minimum of requirements for their situation...to expect the masses to elevate themselves beyond that is foolish, as has been proven over generations of civilization.

    I say again, dear sir, you are wrong.

    "And may God have Mercy on your Soul."

    Regards,
    CrimsonTiger

    "You kicked me in the HEAD! You NEVER throw kicks! How'd you do that? Wires?!" - Sempai Phil (my last sparring partner)
    Regards,
    CrimsonTiger

    "Na'h, they should go to old school rules.
    One guy gets sword and sheild, the other gets a net and a trident.
    Lions eat christians between rounds." - Strong Machine

  10. #20
    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    "your aikido can't stop a machete-wielding Mafia goon" nonsense. Ultimately, everybody knows that,
    HEY!!

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