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  1. The Wastrel is offline
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    Such as thou art, sometime was I.

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    Posted On:
    4/03/2003 12:52am

    supporting member
     Style: Brazilian Jiujitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Come on! Don't you see that's exactly what I'm NOT doing? It all comes down to strange preferences that are fairly individual.

    As far as this self-defense stuff goes, what are you people? Vigilantes? Sure, there's a direct relationship between martial arts training and certain aspects of personal security and physical self-defense. But martial arts alone barely touches on what's integral to the complete package. Some people on the board are involved in this complete approach to personal security, but to be relatively disinterested does not mean that you are any less proficient at that which DOES interest you. Basically what these threads amount to is a kind of notional arms race in which each side pulls another esotereic example out of the air in an attempt to puzzle the other into confusion (Yes, that's tautological. I know.) I could just as easily say that for real self-defense you should be able to speak every known language, because what if your assailant is Persian and is attacking you because of a mistake? Total self-defense would allow you to defuse the situation. Ridiculous, right? If someone chooses to specialize or concentrate in some aspect of physical combat or manipulation, let's say wrist locks for example, that does not equate to absolute ineffectivity or effectivity. You guys act as though effective is a binary characteristic-either on or off. THAT'S RIDICULOUS. Nonsense. Stop it. Boxing is a sport, and it's self-defense. Fo da skreet. Look at kendo. It's sport. But all you do is switch hand implements and it's "effective" on the "street". (aaaaahhhh!!!!)

    Come on, reality? Do you have any grasp on reality? Is reality something that can ever be contained in a piece of itself? We are in fact talking about many pieces or facets of reality. If BJJ is one piece of reality and Aikido is another, it doesn't mean any one is less real, though one may be more broadly applicable.


    **The most miraculous power that can verifiably be attributed to "chi" is its ability to be all things to virtually all people, depending on what version of the superstition they are attempting to defend at any given moment.**
    Normally, I'd say I was grappling, but I was taking down and mounting people, and JFS has kindly informed us that takedowns and being mounted are neither grappling nor anti grappling, so I'm not sure what the **** I was doing. Maybe schroedinger's sparring, where it's neither grappling nor anti-grappling until somoene observes it and collapses the waveform, and then I RNC a cat to death.----fatherdog
  2. Deadpan Scientist is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/03/2003 1:06am

    Join us... or die
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Thank you!!

  3. Deadpan Scientist is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/03/2003 1:11am

    Join us... or die
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    What one woman had to say about The Wastrel:





    Edited by - brandeissansoo on April 03 2003 00:11:57
  4. TaeBo_Master is offline
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    Certified Fitness Trainer

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    Posted On:
    4/03/2003 1:20am

    supporting memberforum leader
     Style: Judo, Jujitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I couldn't agree more. What it all comes down to is that there are no absolutes as far as the martial arts are concerned. Each person has a different level of skill, regardless of what art they practice. I've gone untouched against BJJ practicioners, and KOed cold by TKD stylists (I use these two as examples because they seem to be the most common examples of good/bad arts on this site).

    Which is something that bothers me reading all these anti-TKD posts. Everyone acts as if TKD is in its ESSENCE flawed, particularly when applied to "self defense" situations. What most people don't seem to realize is that arts like TKD feature a lot of high kicks because of the way it's set up as a sport. High kicks score points. That doesn't mean that if confronted on the street, a practicioner with the slightest bit of common sense could change that head level kick into a knee level kick followed with punches or grabs or whatever the situation calls for. To me, it's like saying that since a boxer isn't allowed to hit his opponent in the groin in the ring that he wouldn't be able to do it on the street if given the opportunity. Ridiculous. A PERSON fights, not an art.

    Wastrel, you're completely right. Training in martial arts won't make you 100% effective in any given situation, but it will enhance your effectiveness in the specific situations you prepare for. I've always believed that the more knowledge you have, the better off you are, regardless of what happens. So while one may learn boxing strictly as a sport, it doesn't take much brainpower to realize that it can be used on the street, and vice versa. Oh, and it seems to me that by your use of such lofty vocabulary and in some places almost turning philosophical on us, you're trying to keep the conversation over the heads of some people ;-)
    Click To Get My Free Training Newsletter... Do It NOW!


    "You all just got fucking owned.";
    "TaeBo_Master and GajusCaesar just scored 10,000,000 points on all you pawns."

    - The Wastrel
  5. IndoChinese is offline

    AKAKTK

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    Posted On:
    4/03/2003 1:25am


     Style: Liu Seong Gung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    unfortunately people have a neocortex. this allows thems to have independant thoughts. problem is that they cant distinguish between what they actually have experienced personally and other things that enter their senses through different means. what i am trying to say is that personal experience is the only real knowledge that you have. beyond that you hear things from friends,or read them in a book, or see them on t.v.. in essence they absorb others opinions and experiences and try to present them as their own.
    one zen story parallels this to picking up pieces of ****,putting it in your mouth, and walking around and spitting it out of your mouth at other people. i really think that most people spend their time thinking about things that personally have absolutely nothing to do with them. like probably 90% of the time. a common term is 'internal dialogue'. what is the content of your internal dialogue? i have a simple rule: i firmly distinguish between what i personally have done or seen with my own eyes from information that i have gotten from friends,books,tv,etc.

    because they are already second hand stories when i hear them, how useful can they be to me. that's where "thinking" comes in and all the problems start. people cob others experiences all the time and exaggerate them to boot. anyhoo, this is getting real psychological now, cognitive dissonance and all,so...

    did you do it?
    where you there?
    do you know how it feels?
    was it done to you?

    if not, then dont talk about it. or at least separate the two clearly. it will help you to stay out of trouble.

    peace.
  6. Shooter is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/03/2003 1:39am


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    You guys act as though effective is a binary characteristic-either on or off. THAT'S RIDICULOUS
    Agreed, but I'm not sure where you're getting that implication from. I think you're making way too much of it at any rate.

    My approach to the whole mess is actually pretty simple. The training examines the components and points of failure which lead to bad things happening. From there, it explores the reality which is different for everyone (read: perception issues, lifestyle, etc-pretty run of the mill for Tai Chi and Chi Kung). Formulating personal risk-management strategies isn't an exercise in paranoia, nor is it required that one adopt a vigilante mentality. C'mon, man. This isn't the case at all, so don't try to make it something it's not.

    Scenario drills are like mirrors. The focus isn't on becoming some street-lethal freak. The purpose of the drills is to show people how they really do function under duress and guide them toward more economical patterns of behavior so they can avoid, evade, and escape. Believe it or not, we live in a violent, fucked up world, and lots of people have fallen victim to it because they lacked the awareness, discipline, or understanding which predators depend on for their success. Survivors and people who know survivors, fathers and mothers, caretakers and community living advocates, lots of people are interested in learning more about themselves and what makes different predators tick so that they can avoid, evade, and escape situations which arise in their everyday lives whenever they're exposed to risk while having no choice in the matter. Why is that so hard to understand or accept?

    Some people have done a lot of research and have acquired some experience to lend them a certain amount of insight and ability to help others explore those ideas without turning it into an fanatical pursuit.

    I'm not interested in training up an army of vigilantes or fanatics. Anyone who wants the full scope of what I understand as the Living Art of Tai Chi Chuan is welcome to explore as many different facets of that Living Art as they please...or not. It's up to them.
  7. The Wastrel is offline
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    Such as thou art, sometime was I.

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    Posted On:
    4/03/2003 1:55am

    supporting member
     Style: Brazilian Jiujitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Shooter,
    You and kuntaokid both seem knowledgeable and reasonable, but that thread had gotten out of control. Don't consider yourself the target of what I had to say. I tried to keep it vague so that rather than object on a personal basis, people would evaluate it for what it is.

    **The most miraculous power that can verifiably be attributed to "chi" is its ability to be all things to virtually all people, depending on what version of the superstition they are attempting to defend at any given moment.**
    Normally, I'd say I was grappling, but I was taking down and mounting people, and JFS has kindly informed us that takedowns and being mounted are neither grappling nor anti grappling, so I'm not sure what the **** I was doing. Maybe schroedinger's sparring, where it's neither grappling nor anti-grappling until somoene observes it and collapses the waveform, and then I RNC a cat to death.----fatherdog
  8. IndoChinese is offline

    AKAKTK

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    Posted On:
    4/03/2003 1:56am


     Style: Liu Seong Gung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    nice, shooter. your command of english far exceeds mine.

    wastrel, i dont think that people are as one-sided as all that. they just happen to be projecting certain facets of their personality here in a forum which is quite specialized. so there will tend to be a predominance of the certain "themes" which martial artists are enamoured of. and people always like to choose extreme positions for the sake of arguement. its dualistic thinking as opposed to colateral thinking, greek style vs. chinese style philosophy. dammit,i know exactly what you mean wastrel, i just cant explain it very well. maybe someone can do better.

    light/dark
    hard/soft
    long/short
    inner/outer
    high/low

    peace.
  9. The Wastrel is offline
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    Such as thou art, sometime was I.

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    Posted On:
    4/03/2003 1:58am

    supporting member
     Style: Brazilian Jiujitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Tae-BoMaster,
    That's just the way I talk; I try to be clear at different levels and be available for different levels of engagement and inquiry.

    **The most miraculous power that can verifiably be attributed to "chi" is its ability to be all things to virtually all people, depending on what version of the superstition they are attempting to defend at any given moment.**
    Normally, I'd say I was grappling, but I was taking down and mounting people, and JFS has kindly informed us that takedowns and being mounted are neither grappling nor anti grappling, so I'm not sure what the **** I was doing. Maybe schroedinger's sparring, where it's neither grappling nor anti-grappling until somoene observes it and collapses the waveform, and then I RNC a cat to death.----fatherdog
  10. The Wastrel is offline
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    Such as thou art, sometime was I.

    Join Date
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    Posted On:
    4/03/2003 2:06am

    supporting member
     Style: Brazilian Jiujitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    wastrel, i dont think that people are as one-sided as all that. they just happen to be projecting certain facets of their personality here in a forum which is quite specialized.
    HEHE. Oh no my friend, these things keep coming back. They're like herpes.

    As far as Greek and Chinese style thinking goes, there are some differences because of their scope. I wouldn't apply superior value to Chinese philosophy, it never really gets anywhere. Classical methods are equally applicable here.

    **The most miraculous power that can verifiably be attributed to "chi" is its ability to be all things to virtually all people, depending on what version of the superstition they are attempting to defend at any given moment.**
    Normally, I'd say I was grappling, but I was taking down and mounting people, and JFS has kindly informed us that takedowns and being mounted are neither grappling nor anti grappling, so I'm not sure what the **** I was doing. Maybe schroedinger's sparring, where it's neither grappling nor anti-grappling until somoene observes it and collapses the waveform, and then I RNC a cat to death.----fatherdog
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