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  1. Yamabushi is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/25/2005 1:23pm

    supporting member
     Style: Bartitsu, Aikido

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Well, the first clip is a typical example of technique. Although it is done more slowly than many (presumeably for demonstration purposes). The argument is, of course, that "in reality you would really hit him".

    The second clip is an example of an exercise designed to get you used to moving someone around when they grab your wrist or attack with a thrust. It is not, in itself a technique, although similar movements appear in lots of aikido moves.
    Failing to become awesome since 1976
  2. Peter H. is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/25/2005 7:32pm


     Style: Aikido-Kickboxing-Taichi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by xvid
    After a further review of the site techniques, if this is a legitimate school of aikido, can somebody explain to me why techniques like this emerge?

    http://www.martial.com.au/movies/technique/Kotegaes.MPG (you wanna try and punch him any harder?)
    http://www.martial.com.au/movies/tec...ainohenko2.MPG (gave his back to him on a silver platter)

    if this isnt bullshido, i dont know what is
    Clip one is a very slow kote gaieshi into a shoulder lock/pin. I don't have a problem with the speed on the technique, or the lack of fluidity, as he is obviously doing this to be a demonstration. I do have a problem with the following:

    1) The Nage pushes the hand too high and far away, removing it from his center and limiting both the rotation and the body mass he can put into the technique and is forced to rely entirely on the strength of his arms to execute. If he is going to take the hand back in that high, he needs to go ahead and go a bit higher and roll it in to a shiho nage.
    2) On the take over he passes on the quick, standing shoulder pin to go to the kneeling shoulder lock/pin. No problem there. When he drops, he puts no mass on the uke, instead going to hold him implace strictly by the pin. Again, that isn't a big deal, as most Aikido schools will prefer you do it that way to keep with the essence of Aiki. The problem is there is no bend in the elbow as he does the lock, making it easy to roll the shoulder out of, that combined with the uke tapping before the lock is even applied, you really don't get a sense for if the technique is being done properly or effectively, since you see no real application.

    Clip 2 is a simple blending exercise. The nage makes a beginers mistake. On his step in his hand colapses against his center, and the retruns to the proper position as he steps around. You get a better "pull" on the uke if you keep your hand at the same distance from your center all the way through.

    If that is an example of Fields, his Aikido is subpar for a 5th Dan, but about equal to most 2nd Kyu's I've seen, both in and out of my style.

    Oh, and Dayofthejackass, anything you want to say to me about him you can say out here, don't PM me bullshit excuses. I've heard them all before.
    Last edited by Peter H.; 9/25/2005 7:34pm at .
    "Quiet fool before I am kicking the butt!"
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    "No surprise. Until Aikido sheds its street-brawling, thuggish image, it'll never be mainstream."
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  3. DayOfTheJackass is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/26/2005 12:08am


     Style: bjj, boxing, ex-iwama ryu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Hmm sorry I just saw this again, I didn't realise you don't wish to be PM'ed. Llook around that site though there other clips of less basic material. Try in the 'associated dojo' section, the bloke from perth.
    Last edited by DayOfTheJackass; 10/19/2005 12:14am at .
  4. BSONE is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/26/2005 12:20pm


     Style: ASU Aikido

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    peter h, nice analysis of the video, i agree with the 2nd kyu comment. no connection at all with uke.
  5. Peter H. is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/26/2005 1:39pm


     Style: Aikido-Kickboxing-Taichi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I think really, the guy isn't Bullshido. He's defintely got some McDojo rules and things happening, but I doubt there is any fraud on his part. His ranks are most likely legitimate, easily explained how he got them, and with the exception of the excessive force and Budo teaching, there is nothing particularly outrageous about his claims.

    In the end, I just find his Aikido substandard and would choose elsewhere to train.
    "Quiet fool before I am kicking the butt!"
    -My three year old trash talking to me

    "Integrity can't be bought or sold---you either have it or you don't."
    -The Honky Tonk Man

    "If you can't be a shining example, at least be a dire warning."
    -My Father to me one day

    "No surprise. Until Aikido sheds its street-brawling, thuggish image, it'll never be mainstream."
    -Don Gwinn
  6. FredGarvinMP is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/27/2005 11:55am


     Style: Koei-Kan, Aikido

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    First post...I'm nervous...

    Like has already been mentioned, the two techniques are very basic and first day of aikido training level. Peter made some very good comments about the issues he saw in the videos. I'd like to add a couple of thoughts as well:

    In general:
    - Nage's hips are dead. He has absolutely no life in them. It may be a basic technique, but that is no excuse for being the equivilent of a dead fish.

    - Nage has issues with the pivoting on the front foot. I can not see any reason why someone would want to put a pause in the middle of a pivot.

    Kotegaeshi:
    - Nage, right off the get go, grabs uke's attacking hand. There is no initial 'getting off the line' and deflection of the attack. Add some speed and an uke that's not so willing and that nage is not going to have a technique.

    - It does appear that nage has no idea how to add real atemi to the technique.

    - Nage allows uke's attacking hand to rise back up while initiating the technique. That gives uke his balance back and opens up nage to counters.

    Tainohenko:
    I usually have more issues with the nage in this exercise and this is definitely one of those times. This is simply an exercise, it is not technique. However, uke does my number one pet peeve; do you see the huge space his palm leaves when nage turns? That is poor. Uke should always have a firm grasp and move his body so as to maintain that grasp as well as the connection between them. By doing it the way it is in the video, I can not see nage really getting anything out of the exercise. I must say though that I have seen many pictures of ukes with O Sensei that show the same thing.

    All in all, I will say that his credentials look to be in line. I do question the need for stating the different "ranks" between Iwama and Hombu dojo. Up until the split between Saito's son and the Aikiki, I would have thought there would be no distinctions made (even though the teachings can be very different at times). I could be wrong with that one, I can do some research on that. I wouldn't question his educational background. What I would question are his dojo practices and his actual ability. Field sensei does have some very Saito-esque techniques from what I have seen, but, like Peter mentioned, I am not thrilled with his displayed skill level.
    Last edited by FredGarvinMP; 9/27/2005 12:02pm at .
  7. xvid is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/29/2005 5:45am


     Style: Judohaus (ex beejayjay)

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    thanks, will show this thread to my friend
  8. leavittk is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/30/2005 5:17pm


     Style: Aikido/MACP/BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Doesn't appear to be Mc Dojo to me. May not agree with his training or his rules, but don't think he is holding himself out to be something that he is not, or promising to deliver that he can't from looking at his website.

    I am curious, Peter H, why you consider Budo and Aiki to be incompatable?
  9. DCS is online now
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    Posted On:
    11/21/2005 8:33pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: 柔道

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I haven't noticed this thread until today, and as one of the resident iwamaers, there are my 2 cents.

    Field sensei afaik is legit, trained under the late Saito M. Sensei and received his ranks from him.

    I'm going to quote PeterH posts, because he's who made the most an better ellaborated opinions about the issue. Nothing personal against texans.

    (Bold are mine)

    What the **** equipment are they using? All you need for Aikido is two things: Youself and a stick between 40 and 50 inches long. And usually, the stick is optional.
    Well, the sticks are usually optional (and in most mainline Aikido dojos inexistent)but if you want Iwama style you'll better have jo and bokken or you'll be in a serious disadvantage. :)

    And the guy does this to make cash off equipment sales, $50 - $85 for a uniform, + $80 for a hakama, $80 for a jo + $82.50 for a Bokken + $8 for a knife + $25 for a bag. This guy is into you for $325.50 right off the bat.
    Yes, prices are high, even in Australian dollars (1 Aus $ is about 0.75 Us $). You can find same equipment for less in Tozando or Bokkenshop (use Google if you want).

    Not to use Aikido techniques offensively inside or outside the dojo.
    Not to attend any non Field Aikido martial arts events without permission from their Sensei
    Both of these are to keep students from seeing that what they learning isn't the end all be all.
    Both of those make me stamp this place McDojo right off the bat.
    I only have trouble with the second.

    Budo and Aiki tend to be incompatable.
    Ellaborate, please

    Next, ig you can't take a shiho-nage past the point where it could be considered excessive, then you aren't learning it right. And the same can be said for many other techniques. This is BS and misleading, or they guy isn't teaching the techniques properly, so he doesn't have to worry about his students really injuring somebody.
    I dont' know why, but i agree to some point.

    Of course, since he has a prohibition against using techniques outside of class, he could be counting on nobody actually doing them.
    Offensively, he hasn't banned self defense.

    His ranks are also bothersome, unless his ranks were just accepted by other organizations, it should have taken between 40 and 47 years to achieve those ranks. But it isn't uncommon for a person who is changing organizations to get his entre rank accepted, or even bumped up a notch or two if the new organization really wants the guy. So while I say it is bothersome, it is not indictive of any bullshido.
    Iwama ranks are a bit confusing and a long story. But in short, Saito M. established separated certificates in buki waza (weapons) and in taijutsu (empty hands). Buki waza grades aren't aikikai grades, taijutsu grades were recognized by doshu so they become aikikai grades. Saito M. was an Aikikai sihan, he never had a different organization, only a different training system and curriculum inside Aikikai.

    Of course, these things had raised political and organizational issues who ended with Saito H. (Saito M.'s son) resigning from Aikikai and founding a different organization,while other high ranked Iwama stylists remain Aikikai affiliated and others went more or less independent. (_ing _ung anyone?)

    About the clips:

    Clip 1: kote gaeshi against mune dori (chest grab) attempt.

    Clip one is a very slow kote gaieshi into a shoulder lock/pin. I don't have a problem with the speed on the technique, or the lack of fluidity, as he is obviously doing this to be a demonstration. I do have a problem with the following:

    1) The Nage pushes the hand too high and far away, removing it from his center and limiting both the rotation and the body mass he can put into the technique and is forced to rely entirely on the strength of his arms to execute. If he is going to take the hand back in that high, he needs to go ahead and go a bit higher and roll it in to a shiho nage.
    Kotegaeshi iwama style is not based on rotation and body mass, the throw is based on footwork. Here is another clip of this technique performed by Saito H. Sensei, here you can see what can happen if nage keeps uke's hand low and close:

    http://aikido-france.net/download.ph...unadori-hs.avi

    2) On the take over he passes on the quick, standing shoulder pin to go to the kneeling shoulder lock/pin. No problem there. When he drops, he puts no mass on the uke, instead going to hold him implace strictly by the pin. Again, that isn't a big deal, as most Aikido schools will prefer you do it that way to keep with the essence of Aiki. The problem is there is no bend in the elbow as he does the lock, making it easy to roll the shoulder out of, that combined with the uke tapping before the lock is even applied, you really don't get a sense for if the technique is being done properly or effectively, since you see no real application.
    Not mass applied on shoulder and not bending uke's elbow: Well, the idea is raising uke's body a bit to help elbow hiperextension an then apply force on uke's elbow, it's a mix between pin and armbar. Uke is tapping fast because he's a ***** :)

    If you know judo'sude gatame you'll get an idea.
    Clip 2 is a simple blending exercise. The nage makes a beginers mistake. On his step in his hand colapses against his center, and the retruns to the proper position as he steps around. You get a better "pull" on the uke if you keep your hand at the same distance from your center all the way through.
    But we dont want to get a "pull", we only want to rotate around uke until nage's hips meet uke's hips

    Same technique, different angle:
    Techniques shown by Field are very basic and seems performed in a "take it easy" mode, but textbook iwama style imho.

    In any case, i have to agree that the clips aren't the best i've seen but i've also seen worst (or what looked worst to me) technique displayed both in Iwama and in other Aikido and by higher ranked people.
    Last edited by DCS; 11/21/2005 8:48pm at . Reason: adding link to pic
  10. BackFistMonkey is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/22/2005 2:20am

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     Style: Recovery-Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    more Aikido ... man I already had my Aikido lesson today ....



    I am betting I would find this thread alot more informative if I spoke :XXbunny: but as it stands all these terms leave me in the dark . Some times I think I get what your saying then you say something that belongs in tenticle porn .

    Maybe I just need to get out of Kentucky more often ...
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