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  1. Virus is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/22/2005 3:58am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Throwing fat people.

    I mentioned this on a previous post but it wasn't discussed.

    I have difficulty performing your standard shoulder/hip throws on fat people. Even when there is no resistance. I can't get a throw on my friend who's fat in bujinkan and when we were doing hip throws in jujitsu my partner was a chunky guy and the best I could do was make him kind of fall over next to me (but no lift). If the guy is normal or even athleticly built I can do it (including randori) but the fatties really wreck my technique! What happens is I can't get any lift and yes, I use my hip and legs and I don't muscle the technique.

    Perhaps the good judoka/jujitsuka of this forum could comment. Is this just a universal difficulty which everyone has? Does the technique need to be changed? or do my throws just suck? What is your experience with fat people and throws?

    Thanks in advance.
  2. Jekyll is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/22/2005 4:18am

    supporting member
     Style: San shou(tai chi) +judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Virus
    I mentioned this on a previous post but it wasn't discussed.

    I have difficulty performing your standard shoulder/hip throws on fat people. Even when there is no resistance. I can't get a throw on my friend who's fat in bujinkan and when we were doing hip throws in jujitsu my partner was a chunky guy and the best I could do was make him kind of fall over next to me (but no lift). If the guy is normal or even athleticly built I can do it (including randori) but the fatties really wreck my technique! What happens is I can't get any lift and yes, I use my hip and legs and I don't muscle the technique.

    Perhaps the good judoka/jujitsuka of this forum could comment. Is this just a universal difficulty which everyone has? Does the technique need to be changed? or do my throws just suck? What is your experience with fat people and throws?

    Thanks in advance.
    If we're talking about practicing throws in a co-operative setting, assuming your legs are strong enough to hold them up, there is no physical reason why you can't perform O-goshi. However, training with really heavy people is a great way to test the form of your technique, I would imagine that either;
    a) You are not droping your hips far enough below theirs, so you have to pull them onto you with your back. Or
    b) You are not standing close enough to them. Your arse should be touching them before you start the lift.
    In randori, I would recomend using different techniques that don't involve lifting the other guy. Try taitoshi or drop shionagi.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stickx
    It must suck for legit practitioners of tai chi like Cullion to see their art get all watered down into exercise for seniors.
    Those who esteme qi have no strength. ~ Exposition of Insights into the Thirteen Postures Attrib: Wu Yuxiang founder of Wu style tai chi.
  3. Omar is offline

    Baji demigod.

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    Posted On:
    9/22/2005 4:20am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Chinese Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I suck at Judo but for some strange reason can seio-nage someone at least 75 lbs heavier and a couple inches shorter than me. I doubt it would work with someone taller because the key seems to be to just bend over and not really bother trying to lift them.

    I think Tim Cartnell's video (and book) "Effortless Combat Throws" was a big help. I still don't have the credentials to comment on it in randori but in terms of just chucking the weight over for a nice clean through, that's one I have no problem with.
    Fighting evil and upholding justice in blue silk pajamas baby!
    http://youtube.com/watch?v=UGaYD_wcaIg

    http://youtube.com/watch?v=6Uepo9ahg-M

    Bah!!! Puny Humans.


  4. sivari is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/22/2005 4:22am


     Style: Brasilian Ju-jutsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'm one of them fat punks and we're going to start throws in next class. I'm a bit afraid since my breakfalls really suck :-(
  5. Sophist is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/22/2005 5:10am


     Style: Judo, BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Tani-otoshi's a good one against vastly heavier people if you catch it right.
  6. Cullion is offline
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    Everybody was Kung Fu fighting

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    Posted On:
    9/22/2005 5:16am

    supporting member
     Style: Tai Chi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by sivari
    I'm one of them fat punks and we're going to start throws in next class. I'm a bit afraid since my breakfalls really suck :-(
    Practice breakfalling on your own. Now.
  7. Jekyll is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/22/2005 5:31am

    supporting member
     Style: San shou(tai chi) +judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Cullion
    Practice breakfalling on your own. Now.
    Whilest the idea of a fat man practicing roling breakfalls in an office cubicle is inherently amusing. I'm not sure it's really necessary. Sivari, just try and get partenered with someone with experienced. It'll be a good workout for them and you can be greatful for their control.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stickx
    It must suck for legit practitioners of tai chi like Cullion to see their art get all watered down into exercise for seniors.
    Those who esteme qi have no strength. ~ Exposition of Insights into the Thirteen Postures Attrib: Wu Yuxiang founder of Wu style tai chi.
  8. Virus is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/22/2005 6:14am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Jekyll
    a) You are not droping your hips far enough below theirs, so you have to pull them onto you with your back.
    That's probably it. I remeber having a go at BJK against my fat mate and the one time I almost got it I had dropped further down for the lift. That's probably it.

    Tani otoshi's good. I know there are good techniques to use if I can't get it like sutemi waza or osoto gari which attacks the leg but I'd like to be able to use the hip/shoulder/back throws on any mofo no matter how big and fat :)

    Thanks everyone for your help.

    P.S maybe I should just tell the guy to lose some fucking weight becuase he's making me look bad. ;)
    Last edited by Virus; 9/22/2005 6:17am at .
  9. sivari is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/22/2005 6:26am


     Style: Brasilian Ju-jutsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Jekyll
    Whilest the idea of a fat man practicing roling breakfalls in an office cubicle is inherently amusing. I'm not sure it's really necessary. Sivari, just try and get partenered with someone with experienced. It'll be a good workout for them and you can be greatful for their control.
    We're all noobs. I hope that the instructor takes that into account and we start lightly.
  10. Stick is offline
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    Mostly, I just sit here. Mostly.

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    Posted On:
    9/22/2005 7:39am

    hall of famestaff
     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    For fatties, I use a technique that Te No Kage referred to as uki waza..... I don't know about that name whatever.

    Suffice it to say I do not hip throw fatties. At 165lbs I tried a hip throw on a 345lbs who is the same height as myself, that stuff does not fly.

    I have had far greater success against big boys with shots or better yet trips and sweeps where you pull the opponent into or over yourself. We used to ahve video up of me taking down the aforementioned monster with "uki waza"; a purdy sacrifice throw that brought me straight to mount. While Dio is no fatty, you can see me do the same technique to him- though less dramatically- at roughly 2:25 of this video. I use that kind of take down a lot.
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