If somebody got armbarred or armlocked from within their own guard, then they really suck.
Well, I can confirm the Smuckers, as well as several other condiments. :la:
Originally Posted by garbanzobean
As for the pixie dust, I have no idea. :eusa_thin
However, I have tapped BJJ players before with a choke applied from within their guard. Like you said, you have to have superior skill or size and strength.
If by BJJ players you mean - whites and blues, then I could see it happening, but not purple or higher - unless of course YOU are like a higher bBJJ black belt. Not to nutride but I really dont see it happening.
I dont agree. My coach is under Carlson. He puts the guard as on of the higher (if not the highest) position in BJJ. His words:
Guard is a neutral position. No one has a great deal of control over the other. Unless, one of them has a huge skill or size advantage
The guard is the perfect position. BJJ is the guard.
He is a freak for the guard FOR REAL. So in turn we put a high emphasis on the guard. And I got to tell you, I could escape some purples mounts, and sometimes put them in guard (from under them) from cross side, but I CANNOT pass their guards if they dont let me.
And the guard has about a thousand submissions, and a million combinations of submissions.
Yeah, one of my friends wont let me live down the time I got wasted and fell between a bed and the wall. When I tried to get out, he grabbed my arm and pulled it against the bed with my elbow down - and effectivly armbaring me. And he wouldnt let me go untill I told him I tapped. That kid is such a idiot Im lucky he didnt just snap it there. Dumb people have no concept of the amount of leverage you get, and how easy it is to break joints.
So basically what we're saying here is that an armbar (I'm going to apply this term loosely and assume that we are referring to the family of arm locks that work their magic by straightening the arm and cranking the elbow
Even though I have kicked his ass a few times after that, but he still says he tapped me ONE time!
AFTER you even break the guard dont forget you have to get around their OPEN guard. And thats a whole different animal all together.
And if a person is to concentrate a lot on their guard game, chances are they will be controlling you, rather then you getting the posture and controlling him. The guard is the most veratile position. I really think everyone is downplaying it.
Being inside the guard is not a good position to be in, I dont give a **** WHAT anybody says.
What's the question again?
Straight armlock from any position? Maybe if the skill disparity is great enough.
Chokes and armlocks from inside someones guard? Yeah, more suprise moves though. I choked a guy out with an ezekial from inside his guard once. And had more than one tap from a wristlock. Also pulled a guys arm behind him and under his own guard and forced it to a tap once.
But is the guard a neutral position? I guess it would depend on the people in question. Personally I think for straight grappling and BJJ it is probably 60/40 in favor of the guard player in most cases. For straight fighting I would say it is more like 30/70 in favor of the guy on top when skill is equal because of the GnP factor.
Personally I prefer NOT to be in my guard if at all possible because I can do more from the top position. Gravity and strikes work to the top mans advantage. The other problem is that you aren't able to get up as easily as you want. In a perfect world I could execute a sweep at will, but if it were some kind of serious fight - guard position isn't where I want to be. I would prefer back mount or side control or something. Places where I can dish out punishment whether it be strikes or submissions with very little risk.
I guess it depends on the people involved and the context/environment you are in.
I don't agree with that. The guard game as a whole is neutral, but there are plenty of situations within 'guard' that heavily favor one player or another, and grant plenty of control. Say the guy on bottom has a tight butterfly guard with two underhooks. I say he's at quite an advantage. Or say the guy on top breaks the guard and pins one leg with his knee while stacking the other leg all the way up. Technically, this is still guard, but the guy on top is definitely in a better position.
Originally Posted by chaosexmachina
Wait, what? He'd rather be in guard than have a rear mount?
Originally Posted by 5FingazofDeath
Last edited by MuKen; 9/22/2005 8:36pm at .
And don't forget the obvious groin strikes in t3h str34t. Someone in your guard has pretty good access to your groin unless you can control his arms/upper body quickly enough, or submit quickly. But most people would headhunt and forget the obvious target anyway, I guess. The guy on top of mount has the same problem in that his groin is exposed, but it isn't so pronounced and usually he's GnPing anyway, so it wouldn't probably come up.
But I'm sure this point has been discussed to death, so back to ... ARMBARS IN SPACE!
I didnt say all that. I just said that he holds in high regard. Most of our training involves heavy guard work, because there is just SO much to do in the guard. If I had it my way (especially in a real fight) I wouldnt be on the bottom at all, but if your fighting bigger people sometimes a good guard game will make the difference.
Originally Posted by MuKen
Originally Posted by garbanzobean
Ok, can you get an arm bar at the bottom of the ocean? Or under a truck maybe.....
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