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  1. 5FingazofDeath is offline
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    Welterweight

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    Posted On:
    9/21/2005 7:40pm

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     Style: BJJ/MMA/JKDC

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by lawdog
    That's my point about immobilization.

    Sure, theoretically it can be done, but it's going to be pretty damn hard to control him from inside his gaurd.
    There is NO CONTROLING HIM inside HIS gaurd!!!!! You cant contol someone while your in their gaurd!!! Thats the whole point of gaurd! YOU control THEM.

    Anyway to answer the (odd) question. YES you can armbar someone from any position so long as its SUPERIOR position.
  2. lawdog is offline

    Middleweight

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    Posted On:
    9/21/2005 8:08pm

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     Style: Judo & Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by 5FingazofDeath
    There is NO CONTROLING HIM inside HIS gaurd!!!!! You cant contol someone while your in their gaurd!!! Thats the whole point of gaurd! YOU control THEM.
    That's my point. However, I wouldn't be so emphatic about saying never. I guarantee you there are people on whom I could apply an armbar while inside their guard. Some people have an extremely weak guard and little skill.

    I imagine a 300 lb. BJJ black belt or collegiate wrestler will often be able to control a 100lb. noobie despite being in that person's guard.
  3. 5FingazofDeath is offline
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    Welterweight

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    Posted On:
    9/21/2005 8:17pm

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     Style: BJJ/MMA/JKDC

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by lawdog
    I imagine a 300 lb. BJJ black belt or collegiate wrestler will often be able to control a 100lb. noobie despite being in that person's guard.

    Well....yeah! If you put it like that, sure. But someone is ONLY able to control someone else from there if the skill/size difference is that great.

    Sure before you pass the gaurd you have to somewhat control the guy from trying to control you, but that only for a second just to try and pass. You cant really sit there and really think that YOU are going to be the dominant one in that situation, and you CERTAINLY cant expect to submit them from there!

    Postion before submission.
  4. lawdog is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/21/2005 8:31pm

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     Style: Judo & Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by 5FingazofDeath
    Well....yeah! If you put it like that, sure. But someone is ONLY able to control someone else from there if the skill/size difference is that great.

    Sure before you pass the gaurd you have to somewhat control the guy from trying to control you, but that only for a second just to try and pass. You cant really sit there and really think that YOU are going to be the dominant one in that situation, and you CERTAINLY cant expect to submit them from there!

    Postion before submission.
    Of course. We basically agree on that.

    However, the whole "position before submission" mantra has to do with my initial point regarding immobilization. It does no good to attempt an armbar if you cannot immobilize your opponent. However regarding the initial question, it was rather strange and I still don't know exactly what the hell he was asking, but I took it be be a theoretical question, and theoretically you can perfrom an armbar from almost any position as long as you can immobilize your opponent.

    In my original post that you quoted where I said it would be damn hard to control him from inside his guard, that should have been understood as understatement. Generally you won't control anybody from inside their guard.

    However, I have tapped BJJ players before with a choke applied from within their guard. Like you said, you have to have superior skill or size and strength.
    Last edited by lawdog; 9/21/2005 8:51pm at .
  5. chaosexmachina is offline
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    Unexpected Elbow

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    Posted On:
    9/21/2005 8:49pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: MMA/Pankration

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Guard is a neutral position. No one has a great deal of control over the other.

    Unless, one of them has a huge skill or size advantage.
    "The depressing thing about tennis is that no matter how good I get, I'll never be as good as a wall." - Mitch Hedberg

    El Guapo says dance!
  6. lawdog is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/21/2005 8:59pm

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     Style: Judo & Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by chaosexmachina
    Guard is a neutral position. No one has a great deal of control over the other.

    Unless, one of them has a huge skill or size advantage.
    You make a good point. I'm using the term control but that isn't really what I mean. I'm thinking more in terms of a position that lends itself to applying numerous submissions. Superior in that sense rather than a "control" sense.

    Being in a person's guard is more a nuisance to me than anything else. I don't feel that they are in control of me at all. I do feel it is hard to work most submissions from within someone's guard. Like I said, I've had success with chokes from within the guard, but I've never managed an arm bar, although I'm sure I could under the right circumstances.

    I also don't like using the guard. I hate being on my back. It's a throwback from my wrestling days, and a product of the judo rule set.
  7. Cassius is online now
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    Posted On:
    9/21/2005 9:40pm

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     Style: Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    So basically what we're saying here is that an armbar (I'm going to apply this term loosely and assume that we are referring to the family of arm locks that work their magic by straightening the arm and cranking the elbow) can THEORETICALLY, if the moon, planets, stars, and helio's taint are all properly aligned, be put on from any position. GOOD THREAD GUYS!

    I actually have seen some of the shoulder locks that include kimuras, paintbrush/americana, etc applied from bizarro positions, but they have always been done by a much more experienced grappler on someone who clearly would have lost the grappling game regardless. Maybe the more experienced guy was in the newbie's guard and was cranking the arm to bait something and the newbie didn't know to move his arm or something like that . . .

    Now for a more worthwhile topic:

    I have a theory that sex can be done from any position as long as it involves pixie dust and Smucker's strawberry preserves. Please discuss.

    Also, I have heard Wing Chun is good. Please discuss that too.
  8. SifuAbel is offline
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    Hole in one.

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    Posted On:
    9/21/2005 9:42pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: LongFist CMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    You can't get an armbar in space.
    Give to Haiti relief. text "haiti' to 90999
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  9. Poop Loops is offline
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    OOOOOOOOOOAAARRGGHH RLY?

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    Posted On:
    9/21/2005 9:49pm

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     Style: In Transition

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Yes you can. You just have to extend the guy's arm far enough. You use your glutes to push him "down" and "raise" your hips, hyperextending his arm.

    PL
  10. Cassius is online now
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    Posted On:
    9/21/2005 9:50pm

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     Style: Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by KungFuDoesWork
    You can't get an armbar in space.
    Maybe YOU can't. KUNGFUDOESN'TWORKINSPACE how about changing your name to that!
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