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  1. Lane is offline
    Lane's Avatar

    Ex-ninja

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    Posted On:
    9/20/2005 11:06pm


     Style: Muso Shinden Ryu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Need some help

    So tonight in randori I got trounced. I was going against a guy 20lbs heavier than me, but about the same amount of training. After we came to grips (migi-shizen) he stuck his ass out behind him and kept his legs away from me (what can I say? I like sweeps.). No problem, I thought, I'll just go for a hip throw.

    But any time I closed the gap to throw with my hips, he'd step in and do o-soto-gari. I tried to throw him over me as I went down once, and we ended up grappling with him smothering me with his shoulder (I tapped).

    So, how does one manage to successfully throw or take down a guy who moves his legs back out? Is there any way I can pull him forward into kuzushi without attempting a hip or shoulder throw (especially on a 225 pound guy)?
    --
    L.
  2. lawdog is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/20/2005 11:15pm

    supporting member
     Style: Judo & Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    There are many strategies to deal with that.

    Probably the simplest is too fake your hip throw and throw a tomoe-nage, or sumi-gaeshi (my favorite sacrifice throw).

    Uchimata will also work well if you're good at it. One of my favorite combos that I was just talking about on another thread is uchimata to tai-otoshi.
  3. Lane is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/20/2005 11:20pm


     Style: Muso Shinden Ryu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I don't think I've learned uchimata yet. Is it in the "Kodokan Judo" book?
    --
    L.
  4. lawdog is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/20/2005 11:36pm

    supporting member
     Style: Judo & Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Yes, it is in the book.

    It's an "inside leg Reap". The proper way to do it is to reap the inside of their thigh. So, in a conventional grip (right handed), you'd be reaping the inside of their right thigh with your right thigh. If you look at the book you'll see what I mean. That is the proper way to do the throw. However, when your opponent is bent over with his legs back, I would reap the inside of his left leg with my right leg, reaping a bit toward the outside, hop a bit, and if you can't dump him, step into a tao-otoshi and finish it that way.

    Another good throw against a bent over opponent, especially if he really outweighs you is sasae-tsurikomi ashi. I'd use a Russian grip if he's bent over. Or, use a conventional grip and go for sasae-tsurikomi ashi just to straighten him up, then when he reacts by straightening up step into a tsurikomi goshi. That combo works great when opponent is bent over.

    Sometimes, just for the hell of it, I'll step back, take a knee and yank them straight down to the mat (simultaneously) just to show them how un-balanced they are.
  5. MONGO is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/21/2005 3:11am

    supporting member
     Style: na

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Seio Nage- yank him around for the opening. If he is heavier, he is probably slower and a good drop Seio Nage/Soto Makkikomi will work great.
  6. Cassius is online now
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    Posted On:
    9/21/2005 10:46am

    supporting memberforum leader
     Style: Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by lawdog
    Sometimes, just for the hell of it, I'll step back, take a knee and yank them straight down to the mat (simultaneously) just to show them how un-balanced they are.
    My opinion probably doesn't count, as I do BJJ, but this is probably what I would do as well. Or the uchi mata/uchi mata into tai otoshi once you learn it.
  7. Ronin is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/21/2005 10:59am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Shi Ja Quan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Pull guard.
  8. dramaboy is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/21/2005 11:12am


     Style: -

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Think of it this way: if his legs are away from you, he's bent over and he's gripping your gi, you already HAVE a kuzushi, you just need to pick a correct throw. As somebody already suggested: uchimata, sumigaeshi, tomoe nage, tsurigoshi.

    Tomas

    Quote Originally Posted by Arahoushi
    So tonight in randori I got trounced. I was going against a guy 20lbs heavier than me, but about the same amount of training. After we came to grips (migi-shizen) he stuck his ass out behind him and kept his legs away from me (what can I say? I like sweeps.). No problem, I thought, I'll just go for a hip throw.

    But any time I closed the gap to throw with my hips, he'd step in and do o-soto-gari. I tried to throw him over me as I went down once, and we ended up grappling with him smothering me with his shoulder (I tapped).

    So, how does one manage to successfully throw or take down a guy who moves his legs back out? Is there any way I can pull him forward into kuzushi without attempting a hip or shoulder throw (especially on a 225 pound guy)?
    Current stage of death: denial
  9. Lane is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/21/2005 11:13am


     Style: Muso Shinden Ryu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by BatRonin
    Pull guard.
    You may be making fun of me, but I did that in the third round of randori. I even got him in a cross-choke, but missed my application and we ended up struggling for a hold or choke until the end of the round.
    --
    L.
  10. lawdog is offline

    Middleweight

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    Posted On:
    9/21/2005 11:30am

    supporting member
     Style: Judo & Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Arahoushi
    You may be making fun of me, but I did that in the third round of randori. I even got him in a cross-choke, but missed my application and we ended up struggling for a hold or choke until the end of the round.
    If you plan to compete in judo, I'd avoid pulling guard. You'll end up giving your opponent an ippon. Don't confuse the 2 sports, BJJ and judo.
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