218358 Bullies, 993 online  
  • Register
Our Sponsors:

Results 31 to 40 of 46
Page 4 of 5 FirstFirst 1234 5 LastLast
Sponsored Links Spacer Image
  1. edtang is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Posts
    402

    Posted On:
    3/04/2008 10:23am


     Style: Brazilian Jiu Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by sambosteve
    The guy literally had such a difficult time with ACTUALLY being thrown that I could not demonstrate the throw. Even when he tried to let me throw him, his instinct was to throw himself. It just did not work.
    Hah!

    Actually, I had the same problem coming over from Aikido. Not necessarily that I wanted to be "thrown" as much as this guy - because his ukemi sounds quite good and I was terrible - but because I had no idea how much I had to resist in a training environment. That and it's totally different in terms of distance between bodies (everything's much closer in Sambo / Judo / BJJ....).

    Honestly, if he was flipping and flying out of your attempts to throw him out of habit, I think that's kind of neat on his part.
  2. FictionPimp is offline

    Sexiest Punching Bag Alive

    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Indiana
    Posts
    2,147

    Posted On:
    3/04/2008 1:58pm


     Style: BJJ/Judo/Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Das Moose
    This is actually technique 14 in Renzo and Royler's "Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu: Theory and Technique"

    Seriously. Page 56. Go look. I'll wait.
    It seems the gracies simply like to teach people techniques that lead directly to getting submitted for attempting them.

    I spend all my time trying to teach noobs not to do this choke. I'll be damned if I'm going to endorse it. It simply does not work on anyone with any grappling training.
    "a martial art that has no rules is nothing but violence" - Kenji Tomiki
  3. Das Moose is offline
    Das Moose's Avatar

    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Belfast, NI
    Posts
    1,840

    Posted On:
    3/04/2008 2:46pm


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by FictionPimp
    I'll be damned if I'm going to endorse it. It simply does not work on anyone with any grappling training.
    Beware absolutist statements like this.
  4. 3moose1 is offline
    3moose1's Avatar

    United States Marine.

    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    San Clemente
    Posts
    9,532

    Posted On:
    3/04/2008 2:50pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: MCMAP, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    aikido is a great art.

    If the person is doing exactly the right thing, and prepared to flip over at your urging.

    Its not a martial art in terms of your gonna use this to defend yourself effectively. It has a purpose, but its purpose is not self-defense (that was told to me by a 3rd dan in aikido)

    Also, i think judo/b.j.j would be a more effective combination, because judo throws actually throw someone...

    Also, that choke is a legit gi choke. Its not applied when your in someones' guard though...
  5. 3moose1 is offline
    3moose1's Avatar

    United States Marine.

    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    San Clemente
    Posts
    9,532

    Posted On:
    3/04/2008 2:55pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: MCMAP, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by FictionPimp
    It seems the gracies simply like to teach people techniques that lead directly to getting submitted for attempting them.

    I spend all my time trying to teach noobs not to do this choke. I'll be damned if I'm going to endorse it. It simply does not work on anyone with any grappling training.
    the thing with the gracie's is read the first b.j.j book. All these mystical chokes and submissions. Read the second. All the counters to them. Ok, thats fine and dandy. However, if you were trying to make people better, wouldn't you say "if your in their guard, DON'T DO THIS, YOU'LL GET YOUR GODDAMN ARM BROKEN"

    The gracies want to be on top of the b.j.j game. They want people to be good yes, but they want the best b.j.j players to still be under them.

    How much publicity was there when eddie bravo beat royler gracie? Hmm?

    And how many of you actually believe Rickson is actually undefeated? Listen to anything about him, the language ALWAYS used is "400 victories almost no defeats" listen to this in passing, and you'll just hear 400 victories *splat* no defeats? *splat splat*

    Rickson isn't un-defeated.

    The gracies are good, but they aren't fucking gods of b.j.j.
  6. edtang is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Posts
    402

    Posted On:
    3/04/2008 3:00pm


     Style: Brazilian Jiu Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    What's with all the criticism directed at the gracies regarding this choke? Isn't this a bow and arrow choke which is taught as part of the standard curriculum in Judo?

    Edit: oops, maybe not bow & arrow, but "Tsukkomi Jime"?
    Last edited by edtang; 3/04/2008 3:03pm at .
  7. sambosteve is offline
    sambosteve's Avatar

    Stillness is death

    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    3,736

    Posted On:
    3/04/2008 7:20pm

    Business Class Supporting Member
     NY Combat Sambo Style: combat sambo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by 3moose1
    aikido is a great art.

    If the person is doing exactly the right thing, and prepared to flip over at your urging.

    Its not a martial art in terms of your gonna use this to defend yourself effectively. It has a purpose, but its purpose is not self-defense (that was told to me by a 3rd dan in aikido)

    Also, i think judo/b.j.j would be a more effective combination, because judo throws actually throw someone...

    Also, that choke is a legit gi choke. Its not applied when your in someones' guard though...
    Being prepared to do it in an actual self defense situation...yes. But, you can't just flip around everytime someone touches you. You have to be able to do it under stress and resistance to know what an actual attack feels like...to be able to turn it on or off. It is easy to do when in a friendly environment, when you know it is coming, and when I am not throwing him hard and fast...with committment. Had I just walked up to him and thrown him with no notice, he would have been on his back (which would have been rude...and I would never have done that)

    So what is the purpose of aikido then...according to this guy?

    It has always been my understanding from aikido folks that I have spoken to, that it is believed (by them) to be a totally defensive art...aside from all the spiritual stuff which fills way too many shelves at barnes and noble. Some of them have given me all the standard lines about how it is actually the best defensive art there is. This guy who told you this sounds like he simply changed the doctrine to match something that does not work practically.

    Do you train Aikido?
  8. RaiNnyX4 is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Sapporo
    Posts
    662

    Posted On:
    3/04/2008 7:46pm


     Style: Aikido/Judo/BJJ/Naginata

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by sambosteve
    Being prepared to do it in an actual self defense situation...yes. But, you can't just flip around everytime someone touches you. You have to be able to do it under stress and resistance to know what an actual attack feels like...to be able to turn it on or off. It is easy to do when in a friendly environment, when you know it is coming, and when I am not throwing him hard and fast...with committment. Had I just walked up to him and thrown him with no notice, he would have been on his back (which would have been rude...and I would never have done that)

    So what is the purpose of aikido then...according to this guy?

    It has always been my understanding from aikido folks that I have spoken to, that it is believed (by them) to be a totally defensive art...aside from all the spiritual stuff which fills way too many shelves at barnes and noble. Some of them have given me all the standard lines about how it is actually the best defensive art there is. This guy who told you this sounds like he simply changed the doctrine to match something that does not work practically.

    Do you train Aikido?
    T3h r43l Aikido is NOT purely defensive. It was intended to be proactive and not reactive. Unfortunately, most schools are hippy Aikido and will tell you crap about it being 100% defensive.

    Case in point: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxOLrJh29eA

    About one minute in Saito Sensei demonstrates Shomenuchi Ikkyo. Most Aikido schools will have the Shomenuchi being delivered by the attacker and the defender will apply Ikkyo. However, Ueshiba taught that the person who is going to apply the technique (Ikkyo) should be the one to initiate. So, in actuality, it is the attacker that wins the fight.
  9. 3moose1 is offline
    3moose1's Avatar

    United States Marine.

    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    San Clemente
    Posts
    9,532

    Posted On:
    3/04/2008 10:24pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: MCMAP, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by sambosteve
    Being prepared to do it in an actual self defense situation...yes. But, you can't just flip around everytime someone touches you. You have to be able to do it under stress and resistance to know what an actual attack feels like...to be able to turn it on or off. It is easy to do when in a friendly environment, when you know it is coming, and when I am not throwing him hard and fast...with committment. Had I just walked up to him and thrown him with no notice, he would have been on his back (which would have been rude...and I would never have done that)

    So what is the purpose of aikido then...according to this guy?

    It has always been my understanding from aikido folks that I have spoken to, that it is believed (by them) to be a totally defensive art...aside from all the spiritual stuff which fills way too many shelves at barnes and noble. Some of them have given me all the standard lines about how it is actually the best defensive art there is. This guy who told you this sounds like he simply changed the doctrine to match something that does not work practically.

    Do you train Aikido?
    No, i'd rather not waste my time :p jk!

    What "this guy" told me was that as a self defense form is almost completely useless. He wasn't insulting the art. As a hobby, as a form of exercise, hell, for the beauty of the art, its good. But not practical.

    I believe the words were "its kind of like a japanese tea ceremony, beautiful to watch, but has no part in actually drinking the tea"
  10. M-Tri is offline
    M-Tri's Avatar

    Pseudo-Scrambler Extraordinaire

    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Biloxi, MS
    Posts
    1,039

    Posted On:
    3/04/2008 11:17pm

    supporting member
     Style: Mixed Martial Arts

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Das Moose
    Beware absolutist statements like this.

    This one happens to be true (pending a massive skill/ability diffence). Many of the things used back in the day are no longer used, even more of the things in Gracie Books are not what they would show you if you did a class.
    FACT- Eddie Bravo invented the triangle choke when he used it to tap out helio gracie at an ac/dc concert.


    www.AlanBelcherMMAClub.com


    facebook.com/ABMMA
Page 4 of 5 FirstFirst 1234 5 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Powered by vBulletin™© contact@vbulletin.com vBulletin Solutions, Inc. 2011 All rights reserved.