Posted On:10/29/2007 5:35pm
wow, I read the stories, well explained and writtne I might add, good job on that.. but, I am baffled here a little bit; how can a cult or a training group have over couple of thousand students learning nothing but bullshit (basically what that story summed up) and there isn't anyone that put a little investigation on Shou Shu and find out whether this is real or not???
Is there a martial arts federation that concur on this??
Posted On:10/29/2007 6:06pm
Style: San Da, Judo, BJJ
GKD is probaly even worse than this and they have many many thousands of students :<
Posted On:10/29/2007 7:04pm
do you mean jeet kune do? I don't think I have heard GKD not that it does not exist or anything like that.
Posted On:1/24/2011 12:32am
Style: ShouShu (Kempo) bjj mma
Originally Posted by trfcrugby
err...thanks but no thanks. Gold chains and medallions went out some time ago.
My second lesson started much like the first. I was drilled on the salutation and bow, horse stance, and kicks. Then came the token history lesson. Da' Shifu Moore was a baaaaaad man. I was told about how he could disarm a man with a gun from like 15 feet away. Break an arm with a block. Someday, if I paid the money, I too could go to camp and meet him.
The history lesson concluded, we moved on the first of 1.6 million techniques I would need to learn. You see, each belt had a little booklet, with a specific list of techniques. The instructors would run through the list, and check off the moves they covered in that lesson, and in time, all of the little boxes were checked and certified. I recall asking why we trained against a scripted attack, i.e. the stereotypical wild haymaker or the rear shoulder grab. All of the techniques kind of blend together. I can sum them up in pretty much one description. Opponent charges you in some insane, blatantly obvious way. Block, redirecting his movement. Then choose one of the many Moore’s Special Attacks: Eye Gouge, Throat Chop, Arm Break, Neck Twist, Knee Smash, Face Stomp. I started to realize why they thought their art was so elite. Every technique, if executed as planned, would result in grievous injury to your opponent. Of course, this is all dependent on the opponent telegraphing his movement, not resisting, and above all, not suing the hell out of you for ripping his eyeball out in a bar brawl.
Weeks turned into months, and soon I was moving right along the belt path to enlightenment. I attended one private lesson each week, along with several group classes. I inquired about sparring, and I was told that we didn’t do that until we were higher rank. Too deadly for untrained people to spar. Right. So I asked about tournaments, since I was just dying to try out this art on someone, without getting into a street fight for no reason. Oh no….Moore’s has been BANNED from tournaments. That is what they told me. Banned. The art was too fluid, too unconventional, and the strict rules of the tournaments limited the Shou Shu fighter too much. No, sir, we do not attend tournaments.
About this time, I was a solid purple belt with three stripes to my blue belt. My girlfriend’s brother at the time was a brown belt, and if you have read their belt descriptions, a brown belt is damn near invincible to anything other than a higher Shou Shu’er. Now you may recall that I was also a wrestler, so I always brought up the ground fighting aspects of a street fight, and without fail, I was told that Shou Shu was too devastating, and the fight would not last long enough to go to the ground. So…one day Mr. Brown Belt comes into my GF’s bedroom, and starts throwing kicks at me, saying things like, “What would you do?”. Well my friends, I shot a single leg takedown. When we got up from the floor, he said that would never happen in a real fight. Sure, just keep telling yourself that.
Finally, one afternoon I show up and there are Camp Flyers all over the place. Pay some fee (don’t recall how much), get two days of training, a BBQ, and of course, the deluxe embroidered Camp Patch. Naturally, I sign up, because it’s what everyone does.
Camp day arrives, and I trek up to the campground full of other Shou Shu’ers. Hundreds of them, mostly overweight, wearing the same cool t-shirts I had. The days consists of massive groups classes and “demos” by black belts. A demo consists of a highly scripted, albeit fast, technique that makes it look as though the BB is anticipating the movements of the attacker, much like a Jedi would. Then crown jewel is the gun disarming demo, where a black belt confronts a man with a cap gun from about 15 feet away. Time and again, the black belt is able to close the distance and chop the pistol out of the other man’s hands before he can get a shot off. Oddly, only other black belts were used as gunmen.
As night fell over the camp, groups of students gathered to discuss (i.e. brag) about their training. I recall one brown belt approaching a group of about 10 lower belts, myself included. He stepped into the center of the group, and proceeded to tell us how he would be able to defeat us all at once, and he went so far as to walk through the entire process of beating us down (in slow motion). I actually felt sorry for the guy, when I realized that he seriously thought he could defeat 10 men in a fight. At one time. Crazy ****.
In time, I moved beyond that magical 50 mile limit, and my annual contract was null and void. At first I felt strangely odd not training there anymore. That all changed when I joined the military and we had our first weekend brawl on the lawn behind the dorms. After getting my head pounded by a friend of mine while standing in that ridiculous horse stance, I resorted back to my wrestling, and found that I won more than I lost, at least among other 18-20 year old recruits.
Fast forward to the present. I am now training BJJ and American boxing (some Muay Thai for good measure), in the gym 4-5 days a week. After wasting two years and a fair amount of money, I am finally training at gym that offers sparring and a system that is effective. Funny thing is, we still hear from new fighters that the Moore’s guys are always telling people how they would destroy an MMA fighter. Now before someone steps up and says…hey there is a Shou Shu guy fighting MMA…yeah I know. But check his stats. All of his fights won were by submission. Shou Shu has none (read: zero, nada, zip) submissions. Lucky for him, he also crosstrains BJJ.
McDojo? I think so. Contracts, mysterious history, “deadly” techniques, no sparring, and an almost religious allegiance to the school when full indoctrinated,
That’s my story. Thanks. I guess I am a ***** for not staying. Damn. I remember that when I get my next Kimura. I could have been doing the mighty Cobra Strike instead…
I am a graduate of the Shou Shu Schools.And was one of the Indoctrinated. My name is , well after you read this letter, Shou Shu people, Youll know who:icon_chee!!!I was a black belt from the stockton schools. I was given my belt and diploma by Sr. I was taught by every important instructor from moores.I learned every single move and every monotonaus Kata.From White to eight.Thats inclunding all the beasts. Al Moore Sr taught me personally and his son also taught me. My first instructor was Jim Clark and another instructor of mine was Wayne The piece of &@#$ Smith.lol!:icon_chee
I would never say anything bad about Sr. out of respect. And because he was always kind with me. Probably, because i was 13 when I started there.
But since the monster still lives I will be frank! Al Moore Jr. is the Jim Jones of martial arts/kempo, ohhh excuse me Shou Shu.
Do you know he personally told me that Shou Shu sucked. And he couldnt wait to see his father die. He said that in front of me, Harry and wayne.
Sorry Phil you werent there to hear that. In fact Phil, you were never there for any of the important lessons. You were only there when you could gossip with maralyn. Remember?
Wow:sex: I gotta say, you have changed the truth and past so much; i hardly think we studied at the same school. But we did!!
Phil you should know what they used to say about you before Sr. died. None of the black belts, your such good freinds with now, really thought of you as a martial artist. We thought your brother could be good. But you, please!! But I dont need to tell you this, you remember!
You were just Sr.'s little freind. Because you lived close to him.We were always surprised that the karate was so hard for you. Anyways maybe you are amazing now, who am I to say.
ohh sorry, lets digress, Jr. (he hates to be called that) also claimed to me and pat he could create a better style with praying mantis and shaio chaio. The problem is the Fat man dont like to practice!!!! But he sure likes to eat.:icon_chee
That was before the revolution of MMA!
You are correct about the bravado of their black belts. Most of them have never been in a fight. I remember a black belt named delage. He moved really well ,but never and I mean never, had beed in a fight. But he would talk about it all the time. It was so important for him to be a bad ass.But he was no fighter, thats for sure!!! Do you know he still hasnt lost a fight yet. Of course he needs to get in one qiuck, hes like 50 now. so ridiculous!
Clark was much the same but he had actually been in a couple fights; but you would of thought it was like a hundred.by the way he talked. I remember someone seeing him at black angus fighting, they said, I couldnt understand why he had a guy in a headlock.
Must of been a secret move he never taught us. Since Shou Shu has no knowledge of holds. I think he won that fight. But I heard he had a little help from wayne the piece of @#@# smith.
Before I finish I must say this about Jim Clark. He SHOULD NEVER TEACH ANY CHILDREN.When I was 14, he thought it smart of him, to practice some staged technique. He thought a chain technique would be great for the next camp demonstration. He told me to throw a punch and wrapped a chain around my throat and flipped me over backwards; a few times. To get the feel of it. He thought it was funny at the time. And I was just scarred and hoped he didnt break my neck.
You should ask yourself what kind of adult does that to a child. I have taught and worked with teenagers and cant imagine doing that. Thier muscles and bones are not mature. And its a danger to the school and the system to act like that. My parents should of sued him. If I was the parent, and saw that, he would be in prison! But Jim Clark was smart enough not to do that around parents. If Sr. would have caught him, he would have been thrown out.
Now I would like to talk about everybodys favorite instructor Wayne the piece of crap smith. I gotta freind, Hey, you know what im talking about! named Kevin Garrat that met wayne at a party. As usual wayne was a knuckle head and had some words with him. Wayne threw his trusty wheel kick, kevin grabbed it and put him to the floor. A little Anderson Silva there. Nice Kevin!
I also know a guy from his work who was a kick boxer who got sick of waynes arrogence and called him out. They went to the side of the road (since wayne is a street worker :icon_chee) and cleaned his clock.Remember that wayne!lol
Let me say this so Im not misconcieved! Wayne Smith is the worst human being on planet earth!!Ohhh yeah besides Jr! :icon_chee
No child should learn from that mad, mad man. When I was a 135 pound teenager and he was 6"2" 230 pounds. He would knock me down, punch me and call me whatever his little mind could come up with. He actually did a running flying side thrust to my back to show off to some girls. I thought he broke my back. When the girls came to pick me up off the floor, he just laghed. Why because he truly is a piece of crap!!!!No wayne i havent forgot. And I bet all your current and past students feel the same. Remember when you were going to beat me up , again, for something I might of said . And Mendoza was there. And he got in your face. And you ran like a scarred little girl. That really was my favorite day working at the school:icon_chee!
It shows what kind of character Al Jr. is for promoting that piece of crap wayne to eight. Now theres a man that dosent like to practice also. I hear wayne that your back and your knees arent doing so well . Wayne you should practice!Lifting weights will not help you!
Anyways I was actually one of the few students from that school that got in some fights when i only knew Shou Shu. Mostly because I was a teenager when i started. And its easy to get in fights when your in jr high and high school.
The funny thing is most of the guys @ moores who talk about fighting are adults. What morons, what type of adults act like that? Do you know why, you never hear about them going to jail or see any scars on their faces or on their body? because they dont fight! They think a scuffle with there drunk freinds is a fight. Right Delage!
Sometimes I won and somtimes I lost. I fought a wrestler once and realized I better learn how to wrestle. I fought a kick boxer and realized I better learn how to elbow and knee. I lost those fights, but actually I won because I learned what didnt work and what did so it made me a better martial artist.
No person who has been in more that a few fights can say they always win. If they say that they have never fought anyone good.Fighting is a art not a science, no matter how much you practice you can never know if you will win. Thats why fighting is a art because the outcome is unpredictable. If it was a science you would know.
anyways i could go on and on, and maybe one day I will. But your article inspired me! And Ive been saying these things for years. But my old ,old, no wait, super old teachers never respond! So I thought I should raise the game a little higher.
Do you know Im not even in the ISIPP or whatever that black belt lineage is. Phil did you forget about me. Well I have not forgot about all of you!
Jr, Wayne, Jim, be men!!!Dont act coy, you know well enough who this is!! If you have a disagreement with me and what I have to say, handle it yourself!!! I would like to see if you are still practicing! And I dont mean practicing your staged tehniques!!! I dont do that anymore. So you should have no problem with me.
Your faithful Indoctrinated Disciple!
Da Shifu Poisoned Dragon
Hey, dont get mad, at least im not calling myself Jung Fool!!!!:toothy10:
Ohhh yeah P.S.S.S.S., Jr!!!!!! bring your belt, not the fat one please! I always wanted to wear that. Its so pretty and colorful!!! mIm Lol
Certified Personal Trainer and Drinker of Coffee
Posted On:1/24/2011 1:34am
Style: SAMBO/BJJ/Judo and others
You have a lot of issues with your former instructors; perhaps you should email them rather then post that long winded, cryptic, dramafest here.
Posted On:2/02/2011 10:34pm
Style: Shou Shu
Originally Posted by CoffeeFan
You have a lot of issues with your former instructors; perhaps you should email them rather then post that long winded, cryptic, dramafest here.
pass. nah, good, hard working people deserve the truth
thank you Ti Long
ps, Da Shifu Clark left the Moores and is teaching what Sr. taught him. heres his site...
Posted On:2/09/2011 3:46am
Style: Shou Shu, BJJ, kickboxing
what the ****??? this thread is alive again???
Posted On:2/19/2011 7:32pm
I am never suprised by people like you. You said since I'm a 3rd in Moores I have no street fight cred. I do. I was a bouncer in Sac. You bad mouthed me and one of my dearest friends, but you don't have the nutts to say where you are or your name. You said my style is crap, but how many Moores studios did you ever go into and challenge anyone? I went into a lot of the studios in Sac. when I heard they were bad mouthing us. And not once did anyone take me up on it. I have gone on other sites like MAPS and said I would fight them but they would not meet with me. Let me make this simple. I am retired now and have nothing but time. I live in Colorado Springs, but visit the coast all the time. I have the money to go anywhere. I'm in the phone book. If you were ever in Moores you will know these initials Shifu D.F.S. I started in Rancho Cordova, and was in the Stockton Blvd studio. If you can.t figure that out then send me a private e-mail on when you will be here or I will let you know when I will be in your area. Its simple put up or shut up. Thank You.
Posted On:2/20/2011 2:08pm
Check out the Throwdown Groups link at the top of the page. If you're so eager to prove yourself there are people here who will gladly accomodate you.
Posted On:2/20/2011 2:45pm
As I posted I have no need to prove myself to you or anyone. I have just had it with these lying bastards putting stuff up about a style I trained in and was a part of. I know everyone this nut job wrote about and he could not have been in the style for that long as we allways teach that the horse stance is for teaching not for getting in street fights as you cant move that fast out of it. Its for leg development. But let me show you another lie by this ahole. I know both Wayne and Mendoza personaly. Mendoza at one time was my student, and I can bet you that Mendoza would verifie that the confrontation never happened, and since I was in the system and never even had a rumor of it it never happened. Now let me put this out here so you know where I coming from. I respect anyone who trains in any style, I don't bad mouth anyone elses style, and I wont have mine lied about by aholes like him. And just to show another lie about this guy, he says he knows the Black belts and if they got in so many fights why doesn't anyone have scars or been arrested? Everyone in the style knows me, and they all know my scars and my arrest records, I used them as a tool in what not to do. Like this is how you break your fingers on your fist if you don't hold it right on impact. So he's lieing I taught that at camp all the time. I hope everyone who reads this goes by this simple act of class, you may think anothers style is weak but have the class not to say so, and if someone is, even if its not your style have the guts to tell them its not a classy thing to do. Now I'm going back to my glass of Rhine wine and my book. I've had my fill of people like him for this year. Later Bros.
Articles and Reviews
Tools and Info