Mis-managed Arm Triangle?

**Dio** · Posted On: 9/16/2005 2:01am

For anyone familiar with the Arm Triangle or Head-and-Arm Choke, it's usually applied with an arm in front of your opponent and your head behind them, with a shoulder high and tight to the armpit. Front arm wraps around into other arm's bicep, lock it in, and crunch.

When I was rolling with a buddy last night, we ended up in an odd situation where he had what amounted to a headlock on me (my body behind him... pro wrestler style rather than a guillotine) on the ground, so I threw the close arm over his and worked sort of like a pushup to break his grip. He has really flexible arms though, and I couldn't get out from the one that was looped over my head, so instead I looped that same arm around the back of his head, clasped hands and tightened it, and ended up pulling a submission on him.

Has anyone else done this? I tried it again tonight with my instructor and got similar results. Basically it's just a head & arm choke / katagatame / arm triangle but with your head against your opponent's chest instead of on their back.

I would like to know if this is a legitimate move I just stumbled on, or if it's total crap, or maybe something in between. Like I said, it did the job, but I haven't seen it performed in MMA class or in any of the BJJ books I've thumbed through so I'd like a second opinion.

Thanks!

**sivari** · Posted On: 9/16/2005 4:08am

I am having hard time picturing this.

**Darkpaladin** · Posted On: 9/16/2005 10:13am

in an arm triangle, your head is trapping your opponent's arm across his face...I don't see how you can do the same thing with your head on his chest.

i think you need to send us a picture.

**Yrkoon9** · Posted On: 9/16/2005 10:22am

You description was very poor. Need pictures.

**Stick** · Posted On: 9/16/2005 11:13am

I almost get it, almost.

But I have to agree with everyone, pictures are needed.

Maybe we can take care of this if I come up to Stillwater this weekend.

Also, doing a move on Damiano is not the test of its effectiveness :pancakebu

**Stick** · Posted On: 9/18/2005 1:09am

Having gotten to see this move first hand; it worked because the person he did it to had no idea that he could just turn into it and counter this strange choke with a legitimate arm-triangle or simply pull guard.

Verdict = illegitimate

**fanatical** · Posted On: 9/18/2005 9:46am

The only place I've heard of a head-and-arm choke is in BJJ submission grappling with Royler Gracie. And that was a standard Kata gatame.

Although I'm guessing that's not what the OP meant at all...

Something more like this?

Or am I totally off?

**Gumby** · Posted On: 9/18/2005 9:53am

It sounds like he had you in a basic headlock (not wrestlers headlock) and you swung your arm closest to him around his back and headlocked him as well.

It sounds like you either made some kind of neck crank from it, or it was simply a pain compliance move (perhaps you're a strong guy) that people tapped from because they didnt know what it was or because it was painfull.

**Dio** · Posted On: 9/18/2005 11:53am

Originally Posted by Gumby

It sounds like he had you in a basic headlock (not wrestlers headlock) and you swung your arm closest to him around his back and headlocked him as well.

It sounds like you either made some kind of neck crank from it, or it was simply a pain compliance move (perhaps you're a strong guy) that people tapped from because they didnt know what it was or because it was painfull.

That sounds about right. Should have taken my camera yesterday when we went a-rolling, but I didn't think about it. Dai was correct though, it's not a good move to try on someone who knows what they're doing.

Thanks for the second opinion guys!