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  1. gravious is offline
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    Outside Context Problem

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    Posted On:
    11/07/2005 11:47pm

    supporting member
     Style: MT / BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    nortygirl, thanks for taking the time to provide this information. It is very interesting reading, especially after the gloss job in Blitz.

    I hope you found somewhere better to train.
  2. nortygirl is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/08/2005 1:21am


     Style: Karate

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I've got sore hands after typing all that out.

    There are many people who come onto these sites who have an axe to grind with GKR. And they have every right to be bitter and angry, GKR makes a lot of promises they don't keep, just to get somebody to do what they want.

    I am extremely angry about what happened to me and it has taken me many months to get to a point where I can put some perspective on it.

    I also believe that the greatest weapon is the truth. Beacause they cannot deny the truth, but they can a pack of lies and the liar will never be believed no matter how much they are the real victim.
  3. Shinkengata is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/08/2005 1:27am


     Style: BJJ,MT,Wrestling,Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    There's a nice little thread pertaining to these money-greasy nutsacks over at E-budo.


    http://www.e-budo.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6554
  4. Zeddy is offline

    The Eternal n00b

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    Posted On:
    11/08/2005 5:59am

    Join us... or die
     Style: CM Boxing/BJJ/RBSD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by nortygirl
    Black belts are not awarded at GKR after 1 year of training. It takes many years to acquire a BB at GKR. A lot of this is wrapped up in politics and money. Basically if you play your cards right you may get to BB within 4-5 years. To be more blunt - you need to have the right face to get BB. As many people leave MA once thay have achievd BB it is better to keep them paying and training for years. Giving out BBs after 1 year would send them broke.
    Though I never got that high in the GKR organisation, this does sound more or less in line with their overall scheme. I wouldn't be that surprised by it.

    Quote Originally Posted by nortygirl
    Fluffy has stated that SDCs get a BB in 12 months - total bulshido, An SDC can achieve BB in 2 years if they are an ARM (assistant regional Manager) and are in a position to be taking over or starting up a new region.
    Although the time period they achieve proficiency is highly dubious, I think it's worth highlighting the BB is highly dependent on gaining more territory - and thus money - for the GKR organisation.

    Quote Originally Posted by nortygirl
    From what I have learned from other karate clubs, a student can achieve BB after three years average of consistant training.
    I think it really depends on the club you're comparing it to. If you compare mcdojo with mcdojo, that doesn't exactly highlight the shortcomings or benefits. I would be very interested in knowing the average time for say, a kyokushin dojo.

    Quote Originally Posted by nortygirl
    Many Instructors start at lower kyu grades, the average is Blue/Red belt (approx 12 months training) though many are green and there are some orange belts (3 months). These people wear a black belt with a white stripe down the centre. This may be the BB grading at 12 months you heard about, it is not a BB and any instructor who tells you it is is talking Bulshido.
    I can corroborate with this. I was approached when going for my green belt grading. If I recall correctly, that would be around my third official test.

    I think the main problem there is the "instructor's belt" is more or less a cover up for the organisation. Just before I quit, I discovered the person teaching me, a green belt, was a blue belt. That's one rank higher than me, and both are ranks I'd consider beginners.

    Quote Originally Posted by nortygirl
    Instructors are not kids off the street. The youngest age a student can start to teach is 18. In the past there have been 16yo. I do not agree with this at all.
    I think I should point out at this stage that this may be true for the "instructors", or the main person who leads the class. The "sempai" instructors, or assistant instructors, don't really seem to have an age limit in my experience.

    Quote Originally Posted by nortygirl
    Cross training with another style or club by instructors is frowned upon, I was never told but it was an understanding that instructors did not do this. My RM was not as strict as some on this matter but he preferred it was not done.

    Quote Originally Posted by nortygirl
    GKR is very good at teaching basic technique. If you want anything more than that look elsewhere. There is no real understanding of what you are being taught (unless you have an instructor who has bothered to do their best to learn) and this includes kata applications etc. When I moved on to my new club I was lucky enough to have a good enough technique that I had an idea of what I was doing.
    I'll have to strongly disagree on some parts regarding the teaching of basic technique. Yes, the basic techniques are drilled again and again and again. This CAN be a good thing. However, the basically techniques are usually drilled against the air, with no target or resistance.

    As you pointed out, many don't even fully understand the techniques they are teaching/learning. When I was there many years ago, it was not uncommon for an instructor to "test" a gedan barai by throwing a mawashi geri into it. Not good.


    Quote Originally Posted by nortygirl
    Self Defense is what the club uses as its main selling point and many instructors o their best to teach what they can. Though some RMs do not teach good Self defense for the instructors to pass on to the students.
    This is where I feel GKR crosses the line from mcdojo into bullshido. If they said for fun, fitness, and sport, I wouldn't mind at all. Actively promoting the general GKR training as self defence for the average practictioner is ludicrous.

    Quote Originally Posted by nortygirl
    I have to end this by saying that I met some fantastic people in my time at GKR and made some great freinds. They are still great friends, I have had their full support in my decision to leave, but then I was lucky.
    Seconded. While I no longer keep contacts with the club, there are a lot of nice, everyday people in there. I just feel the club is not promoting themself truthfully in many cases regarding self defence, and the financial setup is similarly dubious.

    Thanks for the input nortygirl. Though it's been many many years since I trained with GKR, I find it a bit disappointing the situation there has no changed over the years.
  5. Leonidas is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/08/2005 6:18am


     Style: Goju Kai Karate

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Funny, for a school which seems to be based strongly in Australia, I havent heard anything about it, much less, anything negative. Next thing I know, it's gonna be related to my style...

    Newcastle branch of an Australian based school teaching the style based on Goju Kai and Kei Shin Kan. Includes information on the style development, ...
    Taken from a google search. Well I'll be damned, its got my style incorporated with Kei Shin Kan, a style not unlike mine. Go figure. :new_blowi

    EDIT: Jesus H, with the exception of all of two kata, I coulda been a 4th degree last year or so. And let me be the first to say im definitely not BB material atm :P
    Last edited by Leonidas; 11/08/2005 6:24am at .
  6. nortygirl is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/08/2005 9:17pm


     Style: Karate

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Zeddy,
    I agree with everything you have to say about basic technique. I was a bit short in what I put in here as I was conscious of the reply being a very long post and shortcut it a bit.

    GKR has not really changed much I suppose from when you were a member years ago in the general structure for teaching etc. However, I have heard from some that it has actually got worse as the push to expand into the US and Europe (Germany/Denmark is the rumour) has taken precedence. Good karate has been left by the wayside as the acquisition of more regions/dojos/money becomes the priority. M7y experience of GKR has only been over the last 4 1/2 years.

    I find this really sad as GKR has/had the potential to be a truly fantastic club and despite what Robert Sullivan says, he really doesn't give a stuff about the standard of karate that is taught to beginning students, otherwise he would ensure that there was a black belt in every dojo teaching and that the incentives are there to keep the instructors teaching.


    Leonidas,
    GKR 'technique' comes from Goju ryu/kai from which Robert Sullivan is a nidan and Shotokan which is now influenced by Stacey Karetsian who was a Nidan in this before he came to GKR.
    Last edited by nortygirl; 11/08/2005 9:24pm at .
  7. Leonidas is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/08/2005 9:32pm


     Style: Goju Kai Karate

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Yeah, I just read about that from the site of the school based in newcastle. I agree pretty well about what you said about a school like this at least teaching basic techniques. Ill just lump mine in with ths for posterity, (although im not a fourth degree black belt :P ) so obviously im speaking from my styles viewpoint here. Ive learnt at least how to throw a punch of varying types, etc. Its just that our school isnt stupid enough to chamber our punches outside of basic techniques and kata, but some people will coz they dont know/werent taught any better, and thats what the problem can be with these highly traditionalist schools.
  8. Vile is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/08/2005 10:26pm

    supporting member
     Style: Kyokushin, other stuff

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Nortygirl you are misinformed

    While I appreciate the time and effort you have taken, some of your facts are wrong, simply because you either lack the experience to see you have been lied to or have taken people like Robert Sullivan at their word.

    I'll be more specific:

    BLACK BELT ISSUE

    While black belts may typically take 2-3 years at GKR, many instructors credit previous experience, particularly in Shotokan or Goju-Ryu. This wouldn't be a bad thing if they actually checked the back story of these candidates. The only competant GKR instructors I have met received their quality training in Goju-Ryu or Shotokan. Many subsequently left GKR as they were not able to impart quality skills due to the poor construction of the curriculum.

    The average for Kyokushin or Seido Karate (other Goju-Ryu affiliated styles) to black belt is approximatley 6 years. 4 is acheivable if you are an uchi-deshi, which results in you training at least 5 times a week often one on one with a senior instructor. There are full contact fights at most gradings, including 40 1.5 minute full contact fights for blackbelt. Given that GKR is not only non contact, but also bans "dangerous" techniques (like spinning sweeps) they have credibility issues.

    My brother got his Shotokan shodan after 11 years of training (around 6 years full on). In both these cases not only is the training MUCH longer, but the quality of instruction is much higher.

    INSTRUCTORS

    I have several aquaitances who were taught by the black/white belts, finding out a year or two down the line that their "instructor' had beent raining for about 6 months longer than them. You can't assure quality that way.

    The door to door sellers are indeed idiots. There have been a few cases of them assaulting people who challenged their "facts" in NZ.

    It has been my experience that once you let them know you have martial arts training GKR will not allow you to observe a class or train with them, and will refuse to give more details. I ahve been trying for 2 years to get some sort of challenge with a GKR instructor (albeit it isn't my lifes priority) with no luck.

    QUALITY OF INSTRUCTION/FOUNDER

    The main issue with GKRs quality is that its founder is a fraud. He has, once you piece the bits together from his articles, a spattering of disparate training that amounts to about 18 months. He is not now and never has been a bona-fide nidan in Goju-Ryu. His claims are unsubstantiated and unrecognized. His training in Shotokan is equally suspect. Kareitson may have continued training elsewhere - if you got good training from him it wasn't GKR it was whatever else he trainned in.
    Its fairly simple maths - an instructor who doesn't know what he is doing will produce students who don't know what they are doing, who will go on to train, multiplying their errors and making them worse.

    Unfortunately GKR was a load of horseshit from the starts, founded on lies and a bullshido background, and motivated by money. The people I have known who have left the style and gone elsewhere are univerally gutted at how much money and time they wasted on GKR.

    PEOPLE

    Many of the people who train GKR are great people. They have just been fleeced by some very good conmen. Once you show them how poor their karate is they can be a bit defensive, but by and large the students are the victims here.

    Nortygirl if you are still training GKR and think it is okay, go and train in Goju-Ryu, the style it is theoretically based on. Compare them. I genuinelly feel sorry for the people Robert Sullivan has suckered. Unfortuanatley some of them are leaving and starting identical pyramid schemes of their own.
    Sociopaths are people too.
  9. WhiteShark is offline
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    1% Shark is better than you.

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    Posted On:
    11/09/2005 11:31am

    supporting memberforum leaderstaff
     Style: BJJ/Shidokan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    JUDO!

    Seriously, children should take Judo until you are comfortable with them hitting people and getting hit. There is so much martial and non-martial value in Judo it's ridiculous.
  10. Vile is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/09/2005 9:38pm

    supporting member
     Style: Kyokushin, other stuff

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I agree.

    I enjoyed the hell out of Judo when I was 5 or 6, and it won me a whole lot of playground fights... Should have kept it up - my ground game might be decent now if I had.
    Sociopaths are people too.
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