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  1. sochin101 is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/26/2008 5:52am

    Join us... or die
     Style: No gym currently.

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfsbaine
    Any style of martial art that has to go out and actively look for people isnt a martial art - its a sport, if you want to learn a sport that is different from soccer or tennis then its probably a really good thing.
    Okay... but it would be like going to learn tennis and finding out it isn't tennis, it's badminton.
    But that's okay, because they're nice people and there's a real family atmosphere in the club.
    After a while, they'll let you strike the shuttlecock with the racquet.
    Then, after you've hit it a couple of times, they say "hey, you know, you're really good at this, have you done this before?"
    You feel flattered and say "ZOMG No!"
    They say "Wow, you're a natural. We have another class for teaching instructors, you could be an instructor"
    You flush with pride and say "well, I'm not sure".
    "You get a special uniform so you look like you've been doing it for years"
    "OKAY!!!"

    Fast forwards a few months, you've got your own class and you're teaching them how to hold the racquet, how to toss the 'cock (sorry, I had to) up. How to serve. How to return.
    All this stuff is taught separately, never part of a match situation.
    You've never had a match, of course, and your knowledge is only just ahead of the majority of your class. But it's okay, they respect you (or your confusing uniform) and you aren't training for match situations.

    Occasionally, you'll let the class do partner work, where they'll gently lob the shuttlecock to eachother; little spastic rallies with equally wide-eyed class-mates.
    You don't join in, of course, it would be terrible to maybe look bad in front of them, to lose face, respect.

    You might, one day, realise that what you've learned isn't suitable for a real match situation, and that you've imbued your trusting class with a false sense of competence and confidence. Your shame is drowned out by the un-thinking respect you've stolen on the backs of real badminton players by simply looking a bit like one.

    It's good to be the king.

    :¬(
    Where there is only a choice between cowardice and violence, I would advise violence.

    Gandhi

  2. Ben Grimm is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/10/2008 10:13pm


     Style: Baji, Boxing, Sanda

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I took a free lesson a few years ago. I went there just to have a look. Now I'm a Wing Chun stylist, but I did get a blue belt in TKD (nothing special, I know), but even my basics were cleaner than their sensei. I was asked to leave because I showed him up in a friendly light contact. Apparently I was allowed this "privelege" because I was at about a "black belt" level.
  3. huge is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/11/2008 4:19pm


     Style: Kyokushin

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by The Hogfather
    Okay... but it would be like going to learn tennis and finding out it isn't tennis, it's badminton.
    <SNIP>
    It's good to be the king.

    :¬(
    Great analogy! Pushups for me!
  4. Ben Grimm is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/11/2008 10:51pm


     Style: Baji, Boxing, Sanda

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    It's probably a bigger pyramid scheme than Amway.
  5. Rask is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/11/2008 10:57pm


     Style: BJJ, Judo & Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Hello everyone.

    I have just made my first-ever Bullshido evangelism attempt. A person I know does GKR and has made several compliants about his training. I sent him this e-mail. This is my first attempt to 'enlighten' someone about this stuff, so please let me know if I'm doing it right. I considered making a new thread for this, but as there's already a GKR thread I put it here. Feedback wanted.

    -No- martial arts school should be letting anyone with less than at least a few years training teach another person, let a lone take a class. I am not attacking you personally but rather the situation of allowing a student of less than a year teach classes. In order to teach a technique, you need to have perfect technique (not to mention understanding of the theory behind it) yourself, which you may or may not have - but in any case, GKR's system causes a massive lack of quality-control and 'the blind leading the blind' situations.

    Sparring should not be 'non-contact.' It should be at full-speed and with a level of force depending on the comfort/skill levels of participants. This means, for an 18 year-old male such as yourself, you should be going pretty hard at it. Perhaps not quite full-contact just yet, but almost. In order to learn how to fight for real you need to learn to react to a person who is genuinely trying to hit you in the face, or kick you in the ribs, thigh, etc. At a Muay Thai training gym the sparring is all full-contact. Likewise at a boxing gym. That is why practitioners of these styles are tougher and better fighters. They have a better understanding of technique, timing, distance, strategy, etc; and they can wear strikes just as easily as dealing them out. Sparring should never be bare-knuckles, as you should be throwing committed punches. As such boxing gloves (or MMA gloves if you also wish to use techniques which require grabbing an opponent, eg joint-locks, arms-bars, etc...) should be worn so that you can strike with a decent level of force. This is one of the most important things in learning how to fight. You need to actually fight.

    Sparring is perhaps the most important aspect of martial arts training. Kata will probably never help you. If kata comes before sparring in order of priority then there’s a MAJOR problem. Sparring should occur every class, not ‘if we have time at the end’.

    Kicking and punching in lines will never help you either. In fact, kicking in the air is bad for you. When you perform a kick in the air, the knee joint locks-out and the power travelling through the leg is not transferred into a target. Instead, all that power you have just generated with your momentum and technique goes straight to your knee. You need to kick something. The power of the kick will be transferred to the target instead of your knee, thus preventing knee problems in the long-run. To train the techniques properly you need to have a target (such as a pad or a heavy bag) to strike, and you need to develop skill at striking them hard. You need to kick hard enough to break a man’s ribs and send those broken shards into his lungs, or take out his leg in a single strike, or knock him out with a blow to the head. Kicking the air in lines as the sensei counts in a language he can’t speak will not develop power; only technique, which often falls apart when striking a target. You need to develop power and technique simultaneously.

    Adults and children should not be learning in the same classes. You can't spar full-contact, or even mid-contact, with a little kid. Hit him too hard and there's drama and tears. Furthermore, there's no way at all that a child's punches and kicks will replicate those of an adult opponent to any relevant degree. You need to train against people who are of the same size/build of those who will attack you in real life - ie, adults! - and you need to learn to fight against people who are throwing serious, committed blows. Children simply cannot offer you this in training. Also, kids have different learning requirements to adults, and the pace at which training can progress is significantly slower for them. By training with anyone younger than 14, you are being robbed of skill-development.

    What the hell are parents doing in the dojo? Parents should wait outside if they need to pick their kids up. I know saying this wont change anything at your dojo but I personally find that extremely weird. It's not a gossip-club for housewives. The dojo is a place for fighters to train, not for mums to chat.

    GKR has never, EVER, been proved as an effective style. The extent of its presence in tournaments is the National All-Styles, which is the biggest load of bullshido out there. It's funded by Blitz magazine for goodness' sake :p. Point-sparring at the NAS is no reflection of fighting ability. While it's fun and a good, safe exercise for kids who want an alternative sport to cricket or AFL, it's nothing like proper fighting. There's no element of realism whatsoever and it is a terrible means to test what works and what doesn't work in combat. GKR has never had a successful fighter in any kickboxing, MMA, UFC, Pride, Pancrase, K-1 (etc) -style cage-fighting tournament; not even on an amateur level, despite having over 50,000 practitioners worldwide. These tournaments are where the martial arts world sees what works and what doesn't work. Kung Fu practitioners, Ninjas, Karateka, Tae Kwon Do practitioners, etc, have all fought and lost. The styles which are successful in these no-holds-barred fights are those that train full-contact, or against resisting opponents: Judo, Brazilian Jiu Jutsu, Muay Thai, Sanda, Boxing, Kickboxing, Kyokushin Karate (the one exception to the rule of Karate = fail), Sambo and Submission Wrestling. I’ve probably missed a few but those are pretty much it.

    My recommendation to you mirrors the choice I had to make when I realised that I, too, had been ripped-off by a McDojo that was more focused on making money than producing competent fighters. If your aim is to have some fun after school doing an alternative form of exercise that will impress your friends when you tell them about it (imagine if they knew that the rest of the class is a bunch of kids :p), then stick with GKR.

    If your aim is to become an efficient, competent fighter who can actually deal with an opponent in a real self-defence situation, then quit GKR immediately. If you still love karate - the katas, coloured belts, thinly-woven gi which would be torn to shreds in a Judo sparring match ;) etc – then take up Kyokushin Karate. This is a style which has been proven to be effective in a number of full-contact arenas, such as K-1 and UFC. The former UFC Heavyweight Champion, Bas Rutten, does Kyokushin Karate. So does Semmy Schilt, the Super Heavyweight K-1 champion. It is a balls-to-the-wall, no-bullshit style, which focuses on hard-training which will turn you into a fighter. Expect contact-sparring against adults, disciplined and respectful fellow students, slower rank-progression (much tighter quality-control in Kyokushin… when you get a belt in this style, it actually means something) and a total absence of annoying parents in the Dojo.

    If you are tired of karate – the katas, coloured belts, thinly-woven gi which would be torn to shreds in a Judo sparring match, counting in Japanese, shouting ‘Kiai!’ and all that – then consider a different martial arts style. My personal recommendations for stand-up fighting (aside from Kyokushin Karate) are boxing, Muay Thai, Sanda and American Kickboxing. To be a well-rounded fighter you will also need a ‘ground-game.’ The UFC proved this when grapplers consistently defeated stand-up fighters again and again, with Royce Gracie winning the UFC four times using Brazilian Jiu Jutsu. Get on youtube and type in ‘boxing vs Judo’ to see another example of how, as soon as a grappler takes a striker to the ground (which is easy to do), the striker is fucked. You can either cross-train in grappling AND striking, train in striking with the intention of doing a grappling style later, or just train in grappling. For this area I recommend Judo and Brazilian Jiu Jutsu; both proven to be effective, both very cheap, and both very popular.
  6. sochin101 is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/12/2008 7:43am

    Join us... or die
     Style: No gym currently.

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Redfern
    Feedback wanted.
    Hi mate,

    You've supplied a pretty good explanation for your friend of what he should be looking for, and provided he's fairly open-minded, then you make a good case for him leaving GKR and finding a real martial art.

    The main issue I find with getting GKR people to even consider moving away from the warm cocoon of delusion and institutionalised piss-poorness is that they don't want to lose the belts and rank that they've bought worked so hard for.

    I even know two instructors who I've had admit that they know what they are doing isn't 'real' karate, but they are so used to being in charge, they don't want to get back in line and learn.

    I remain convinced that GKR don't necessarily look for technical aptitude or athleticism when they are recruiting instructors for the sensei training programme.
    They seem to look for the sort of person that is impressed by rank and titles and aren't too proud to get fast-tracked into the lofty world of teaching krotty to baffled, gullible newbies who don't know any better.

    I guess they look for shamelessness.


    I hope your friend takes heed of your excellent points, but it might be less about how good a new style is as opposed how comfortable and safe an existing style is.
    Where there is only a choice between cowardice and violence, I would advise violence.

    Gandhi

  7. Rask is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/12/2008 8:06am


     Style: BJJ, Judo & Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Unfortunately, he is a 'Sempai', meaning an assistant instructor or something. This masturbates his ego more than anything else in the world. If he transferred to Kyokushin he'd be at the bottom and wouldn't be in charge of anything for another eight years probably.

    In any case, I keep my fingers crossed.
  8. Ben Grimm is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/14/2008 6:21am


     Style: Baji, Boxing, Sanda

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    That's GKR. Money for ego. Most of us could probably get a black belt in GKR in less than 1 year. But who would want it anyway?
  9. Rask is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/14/2008 8:35am


     Style: BJJ, Judo & Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Part of GKR's ethos is that they train in all-ages classes. So, 20 year-olds are training with 9 year-olds. I don't understand how any serious martial artist can possibly think about that and not say 'WTF?'. The whole thing is too stupid for words.
  10. sochin101 is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/14/2008 1:20pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: No gym currently.

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Grimm
    That's GKR. Money for ego. Most of us could probably get a black belt in GKR in less than 1 year. But who would want it anyway?
    This is the irony... I've found there are actually very few 'black belts' in GKR.
    Besides, they have a very strict advancement procedure... you have to have the correct number of lessons before grading (£$£$£$£$), have trained for the right amount of time (£$£$£$£$) and they charge general members for the gradings ($£$£$£$)...
    Why give you something in a year that you will happily pay for over three years to get?
    They gotsta get paid...

    You're right on the money for ego thing, though.
    Where there is only a choice between cowardice and violence, I would advise violence.

    Gandhi

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