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  1. MJ Dougherty is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/17/2008 9:22am


     Style: Ju-Jitsu, Self-Defence

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    So.... your instructor is not allowed to cross train but does, and teaches things outside the GKR syllabus that by rights he is not allowed to train in, thus by rights if you were getting the 'proper' GKR syllabus you would never see this stuff. What does that tell you about GKR?


    On a related note, if you're not learning self defence then you're not learning self defence. What I mean by that is you're being taught non-contact karate which is NOT self defence. I bet you don't learn to deal with what people really do in fights; I bet you train against straight karate punches and the traditional 'bad guy grabs you and then stands there like a large piece of citrus fuit' sort of attack.
  2. MJ Dougherty is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/17/2008 9:54am


     Style: Ju-Jitsu, Self-Defence

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Hang on.

    You get hit in the non-contact sparring???

    The guy who tried to sell me GKR hinted that sometimes there was some contact. I told him that incompetent non-contact <> contact.

    Seriously, if people are not supposed to be making contact and they are then they're either jerks or incompetent. This is especially impotant if your insurance is for non-contact.

    It HAS to do what it says on the tin. Non-contact means there is to be no contact except the odd accident. Light contact means light contact. Full contact means... err, I can't rememember what it means right now, too many blows to the head.

    Point is, either there's supposed to be contact or there is supposed to be no contact. Saying one thing and doing another doesn't cut it. My personal opinion is that non-contact is pointless but if that's the policy then it should be adhered to. At least it's honest that way.
  3. senseirduffy is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/17/2008 2:59pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Shorin Ryu

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    In regards to insurance. It is not practical to charge extra for insurance, Not in Southern california anyway, Insurance is just like the electric bill or the phone bill. It should be included in your monthly fees. No attention should be brought to fees for insurance. I would ask to see his current insurance policy. He may not even have one.
  4. sochin101 is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/17/2008 3:04pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: No gym currently.

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by senseirduffy
    In regards to insurance. It is not practical to charge extra for insurance, Not in Southern california anyway, Insurance is just like the electric bill or the phone bill. It should be included in your monthly fees. No attention should be brought to fees for insurance. I would ask to see his current insurance policy. He may not even have one.
    The GKR insurance is bought with membership and is 'fault-based'.

    The worry with this is, as it's a non-contact style, the insurance company would probably be able to refuse to pay out.
    Where there is only a choice between cowardice and violence, I would advise violence.

    Gandhi

  5. ADM is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/17/2008 5:08pm


     Style: Kyokushin Karate / BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by sochin101
    The GKR insurance is bought with membership and is 'fault-based'.

    The worry with this is, as it's a non-contact style, the insurance company would probably be able to refuse to pay out.
    Serious? Accidents will happen though. Seems that insurance would cover for accidents and what not.

    Even in full contact accidents will happen, noses / ribs, etc will be broken, we're not intentially trying to do that to each other.
  6. sochin101 is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/18/2008 3:58am

    Join us... or die
     Style: No gym currently.

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by ADM
    Serious? Accidents will happen though. Seems that insurance would cover for accidents and what not.

    Even in full contact accidents will happen, noses / ribs, etc will be broken, we're not intentially trying to do that to each other.
    Hi mate, the main problem wih the GKR insurance is that it is the cheapest possible, and seems to cover very little.
    From GKR's website. I've bolded the bits about 'accidents'.
    GKR's insurance provides coverage to all people under the care and control of GKR. This means both students and instructors, whether an injury occurs in class, special seminar or other event.
    The insurance is negligence/fault based and what this means in practice is that all incidents are covered except for pure accidents where there is no negligence or contributory negligence. We remind all GKR participants of their responsibility to take all reasonable steps to avoid or minimise risk by adherence to GKR’s protocols and the use of safety equipment.
    Instructors are covered for liability and can rely on GKR’s insurance to protect them from a claim. Additionally, there is member to member cover. This means that if an injury is caused by a student to another student, this is covered so long as it occurs in the course of the members’ participation in any GKR supervised class or activity.
    GKR does not provide “no fault” sick and accident coverage for students as the premiums are very substantial. Furthermore many people have sick leave, medical insurance and private sick and accident cover and it would be unfair to ask these people to contribute through higher class fees (or yearly membership fees) towards those who chose to not have this form of cover. We expect that people who are engaged in an active sport are aware that from time to time accidents happen and therefore they choose to make whatever arrangements they deem appropriate to their circumstances.
    So, a genuine accident (tripping over your belt, gi pants etc and hurting yourself on the unmatted floor) may not be covered, as there's no negligence.

    Also, as the insurance is for a non-contact style, any injury could conceivably all outside of the conditions of coverage. At least that's how it has been explained to me.
    Where there is only a choice between cowardice and violence, I would advise violence.

    Gandhi

  7. MJ Dougherty is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/18/2008 4:47am


     Style: Ju-Jitsu, Self-Defence

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I know of a case where the insurance company were very difficult about an injury resulting from contact, because the insurance was for non-contact. Which is pretty pointless really - I mean, how else can you get an injury? No contact means no injury. Gah.
  8. sochin101 is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/18/2008 5:02am

    Join us... or die
     Style: No gym currently.

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by MJ Dougherty
    I know of a case where the insurance company were very difficult about an injury resulting from contact, because the insurance was for non-contact. Which is pretty pointless really - I mean, how else can you get an injury? No contact means no injury. Gah.
    Precisely... it would be the same if you insured your car for domestic use and then tried to claim because you crashed it doing a track day.

    The example I think most closely fits is holiday insurance. There are people who find out they aren't covered for a skiing injury, because the insurance company excludes dangerous sports.

    Insurance companies, by their very nature, will always look at how NOT to pay first.
    Where there is only a choice between cowardice and violence, I would advise violence.

    Gandhi

  9. Wolfsbaine is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/26/2008 4:49am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Kung Fu

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Kiam
    I had some bloke come to my front door the other day looking for people interested in joining karate.Myself being interested in martial arts heard him out and let him come back latter to give me the full sales pitch,prices,location ect.It didn't interest me much when I was told it was non cantact.I was thinking of my 7 year old son. He was interested, but I got thinking if he done it for 2-3years and becomes a black belt in a non contact karate, it will be a false belief that he can fight. :new_cussi Although I think it is a rip off I will go down and have a look. I don't think we will be participating, as the price was 7-8 dollars a night plus $160 insurance. Unless I paid or joined the night he came knocking I would of got 50% off the insurance.
    Yes yes i know its lame to quote the first post in a 11 pages + thread but anyway here we go.

    Any style of martial art that has to go out and actively look for people isnt a martial art - its a sport, if you want to learn a sport that is different from soccer or tennis then its probably a really good thing.

    Wanting to learn self defense cant come from a desire to have fun and make a new social network, it must be for a strong reason otherwise its a waste of time.

    I began learning gong fu because I wanted to kill some people who did me wrong, 2 months into lessons I no longer trained for the same reason and now (5 years down the track) I can look at my Martial Art and see the strengths and weaknesses in it.

    No style is perfect, time and experience give (hopefully) people the ability to see what works and what doesn't, my style is called Bai Long Quan Hui 白龙拳会 (Pai lum kung fu for the uninformed) and it is a good style because its well rounded and practiced enough to smooth out a lot of kinks you find in shitty styles.

    To put it simply - go to one class and if you see people standing around talking and doing shitty techniques then find a different class (disregard style - your son is 7 so he doesnt care) .

    I tried Kyokushin Karate once and the teachers weren't that good at teaching (one on one they were great fighters and had awesome technique with kicks and punching/sparring) but they couldnt teach properly.....my gong fu teacher was unreal and regardless of what style he taught he was a greater teacher in anything. find someone like him.
  10. Wolfsbaine is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/26/2008 4:56am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Kung Fu

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    dammmmmmmmn 28 pages.

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