8/29/2005 1:26am, #1
Pride Final Conflict 2005 Official Discussion thread. (Warning: RESULTS)
Fedor -- submission
Shogun -- ref stoppage
Silva -- decision
Shogun -- ref stoppage
Igor -- Because I want the old Igor back.
Tank -- 1st Round KO
Werdum -- Don't know either fighter well but Zentsov appears to be a journeyman set up for Werdum to take out.
What actually happened:
Igor -- Been fighting too long. Needs to retire.
Silva -- Seems to have lost his aggression for the time being.
Big man of 2005:
Shogun, obviously. Aggressive/exciting striking combined with an extremely competent ground game (rumor has it that he's a BJJ brown belt) make Shogun the new king of the hill for the time being. Will Silva and Shogun fight in the near future to determine who is the true middleweight champion? God I hope so.
Great show. Fedor has once again proven that he cannot be knocked out. Werdum looked good for his first Pride event, and hopefully will compete again.
The Fedor/Cro Cop fight especially had me on the edge of my seat. Shogun seems to be the future of the MW division. Totally worth the price of admission. I give it an A.
8/29/2005 1:56am, #2
Retire? No, may need to take a break but not retire.
8/29/2005 2:08am, #3
Shogun had a really impressive showing.
As for Fedor, he did well against an extremely tough opponent. For a long time, I've been saying that we haven't even seen the limits of that guy's ability. However, I think that CroCop put some of them on display.
Despite the fact that CroCop's guard game was not only superior to that of Minotoro's (at least against Fedor) but that the "Russian Experiment" was taking a fair bit of damage from there, Fedor was, for some reason, very eager to jump back into it on multiple occasions. I don't know if that was because of how he trained or because of his successes from that position in past, but it didn't seem like the best choice in this instance.
8/29/2005 10:38am, #4
- Join Date
- Mar 2005
- Cincinnati, OH
Shogun was damn impressive and entertaining to watch. He was two completely different fighters in the bout vs. overeem and then vs. arona. I think when arona beat Silva and then bent down and screamed in his face it pissed off Shogun. He was so much more aggressive and lively in the arona fight. Don't piss of the chute box!
8/29/2005 12:03pm, #5
I think silva came into his fight apprehensive, not wanting to make a mistake, and it cost him.
I think Cro Cop did great, played an amazing guard game, but in the end, he didn't train to spend 90% of the fight on his back working guard and then still have the juice to get up and knock fedor out. Still, amazing fight, Mirko's guard work was pretty goddamn awesome to neutralize Fedor's advances like that.I think it was two ninjas taped together, to make one GIANT NINJA!!!!
8/29/2005 1:06pm, #6
- Join Date
- Jun 2004
Cro Cop's guard is better than Minotauro's? Umm, how about no. Mirko used strength and energy to keep Fedor in his guard, lots of it. And look at the end result, he was exhausted and unable to keep up in the 2nd and 3rd rounds and got his ass kicked. Fedor's plan was perfect, push the pace, force Mirko to gas out on the ground and hammer him. Fedor is not human. He outboxed Mirko toe to toe, neutralized his best weapon and dominated on the ground. Keep Mirko's guard in perspective, all he was doing was trying to hold on, Nog was attacking non stop.
Shogun is the man, he's a young Silva with a scary ground game to go with it. And the guy is only 23, he has not even nearly hit his peak yet.Is Wayne Brady gonna have to choke a bitch?
8/29/2005 2:17pm, #7
- Join Date
- Mar 2005
My predictions were:
Cro-Cop by KO
Overeem by Guillotine
Silva by Unanimous Decision
(I wasn't sure who I thought would take the whole tournament, but I favored Silva)
Igor by KO
Yoshida by Sub
Werdum by Sub
That's right, I got two out of seven.
Cro-Cop vs. Fedor
This was MY biggest disappointment. I, too, was on the edge of my seat; every time Mirko defended a takedown was a victory in my eyes. It did show all the doubters who thought Mirko wouldn't have an answer for an upper-body takedown. By the time Fedor really put Cro-Cop down convincingly, CC was exhausted and could barely lift a hand to punch. And I've never seen anyone get marked up that bad from INSIDE the guard...not to take away from Fedor's victory, which was clear-cut and convincing as always.
Overeem vs. Shogun
Overeem did great in the beginning, it even looked like he had that guillotine deep. After that, I guess Overeem just gassed, either that or Shogun landed a big shot that I didn't see.
Silva vs. Arona
Silva would have been better off pouring on the steam. He wouldn't have done any worse than he already did. Besides, Arona's chin sticks out further than Antonio Inoki's, but good luck hitting it if you never punch. Maybe Silva should have fought him earlier in his career, then it might have looked like...
Shogun vs. Arona
That's what I wanted to see. I really don't like Arona. It was nice to see him get knocked around.
Igor vs. Nakamura
Is it just me, or did Igor pass up many opportunities to keep the fight standing?
Tank vs. Yoshida
Went exactly as I thought it would, except I didn't really think it would take so long.
Werdum vs. Zentsov
Also as I thought. I imagined Werdum winning by Rear Naked Choke because that's how he beat Tom Erikson in Pride 29, but then again, everyone beats Tom Erikson by RNC.
Last edited by Shillelagh; 8/29/2005 7:57pm at .
8/29/2005 2:44pm, #8
- Join Date
- Jun 2004
Overeem went all out those first few minutes and gassed when he couldn't put Shogun away. He needs to learn to pace himself a little better.Is Wayne Brady gonna have to choke a bitch?
8/29/2005 3:19pm, #9Originally Posted by TylerDurden
8/29/2005 5:25pm, #10
- Join Date
- May 2005
- Within view of the flagpole...
- BJJ, Kickboxing, Judo
It definitely seemed to take Overeem's heart when Shogun escaped the guillotine, and seemed that Shogun almost gave it to him just to get position (he slyly plants his hands for leverage right off the bat, then hops out and hits the knee/kick that I think sealed it from there out).
Mirko's guard WAS superior to Nog's in the fact that he was able to control Fedor with it to the point of avoiding the beating. Mirko, like Wanderlei, was hesitant about pushing the aciton on the feet until he felt a few punches and takedown attempts. He finally felt comfortable for that flurry late in the first, but then got taken down. He then just had too much work to do form the bottom, though he was knocking Fedor's head around liek a speed bag for a few moments there.
Wanderlei was WAY too tentative, but I thought it was bullshit that they carded him when he was throwing punches and kneesp from the bottom (check that out... A lot of people missed that crazy bottom clinch), and was landing about 4 times more than Arona, who was just tossing the occasional wild hammerfist. The refs were sleeping the first couple matches, and left it on the ground when the top man wasn't bothering to advance (something sorely dissapointing, considering Arona couldn't stop bad mouthing Silva's BJJ, but then never even attempted to test it). Yellow carding Silva for stalling after he tried a sub from the bottom and threw all those shots was a crime, but wouldn't really change the outcome.
Final thought on the show: Arona is positively classless... Coupled with the scream in Silva's face, his entire ten minute post-fight interview is him saying how he hit his own head on the ground and knocked himself out at the beginning of the fight with Shogun. I've never seen a poorer performance in victory or defeat in one evening, EVER.
From "HA! I sat in your guard and forced a decision, just like everyone always criticizes me for!!" to "I beat myself, I was goign to take Shogun down and submit him, but I hit my head."
Some observences, after watching the show the second time (taped it last night, so glad, especially since everyone keeps saying "look at this, look at that"), I have some comments about future matches-
If Arona was still tired from fighting Wanderlei, then I dunno how he'd fare in a REGULAR Pride match with the additional five minute round. If he can't recover in an hour, the two minute rest between rounds may have left him flat footed enough for Wand to do some damage. Can't wait for a rematch, and see them really go for it instead of all that feeling out.
Mirko can take Fedor in a rematch, and there's no one else right now in Pride that can take either of them. Of course, Fedor has also taken the measure of Mirko now, and can adapt his gameplan to take a more aggressive Mirko. As it stands, if they fought again next week, Mirko has gotten his feeling out out of the way, and knows he can outstrike and rock Fedor. Again, can't wait for a rematch. Haven't seen Nog in a bit, but he'll need some of his vaunted creativity to beat either of these guys now.
Finally, if Silva was serious about "passing the torch", then he should give the title shot to Shogun. If Shogun takes it, then Arona can fight Wand for a shot at him. It stirs things up, lets Silva move on, and ensures the continued dominance of Chute Boxe. Shogun is the future of Chute Boxe, and he's already concquered the strongest competition in his weight class in convincing fashion (Rampage, Lil Nog, Overeem, and Arona? Three BRUTAL stoppages and a definitive unanimous decision? Best at 205 in the world, anyone?)
Good stuff. I wore my Chute Boxe jersey to watch the fights, and wore it out again today. I'll probably wear it out, literally, in the next few months!!
<--- hopeless fan boy.
Last edited by GarageJudokaSS; 8/29/2005 5:44pm at .