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  1. #1

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Iron body real or fake?

    So in my other post about brass knuckles I got a few responses saying that iron palm and iron body are pseudo-scientific things. So I am legitimately curious is the science behind them false? I mean yes qi and such I totally can understand being pseudoscience. But everything I have seen or read with Wolf's law looks legit with iron body. So is there any articles and such as you read that talk about how high iron body is not real?

    Thanks

  2. #2
    Speaks Softly's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Dude. look at what a boxer or an MMA person does to condition themselves to getting hit in the body and the legs.

    That's iron body.
    The masters perfected Karate. What fool is there today that can step forward and perfect perfection -- From the introduction to the book "Shoto-Kan Karate-The Ultimate in Self-Defense" written by Peter Ventresca

  3. #3

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I have known guys with dents in their forearms and shins from conditioning exercises.
    In theory, this type of thing can cause the underlying bone to become a bit denser,
    and make the nerves insensitive to pain.
    And those guys did seem to have the "stuff" in those conditioned joints.
    (I was skeptical until we put them to some tests, which they passed).
    But, I also know a lot of guys who did concrete breaking in their youth that ended up with very sensitive hands in middle age, and/or ended up with wasting in their forearms from untreated entrapped nerves.
    And, I also know a lot of middle aged fighters personally, who now have the shakes among other things.
    The old adage "what does not kill you makes you stronger" is often a case of "what does not kill you quickly often still kills you slowly".
    I don't really know anything about Iron Body.
    But, I suspect that common sense should be used.
    I hate seeing people on the Internet light themselves on fire,
    Jump off roofs,
    or break anything with their hands or their heads,
    or even open beer bottles with their teeth.
    There is a medium to long-term cost for all of that, and it catches up to you in middle age at the latest.

  4. #4
    Raycetpfl's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by WFMurphyPhD View Post
    I have known guys with dents in their forearms and shins from conditioning exercises.
    In theory, this type of thing can cause the underlying bone to become a bit denser,
    and make the nerves insensitive to pain.
    And those guys did seem to have the "stuff" in those conditioned joints.
    (I was skeptical until we put them to some tests, which they passed).
    But, I also know a lot of guys who did concrete breaking in their youth that ended up with very sensitive hands in middle age, and/or ended up with wasting in their forearms from untreated entrapped nerves.
    And, I also know a lot of middle aged fighters personally, who now have the shakes among other things.
    The old adage "what does not kill you makes you stronger" is often a case of "what does not kill you quickly often still kills you slowly".
    I don't really know anything about Iron Body.
    But, I suspect that common sense should be used.
    I hate seeing people on the Internet light themselves on fire,
    Jump off roofs,
    or break anything with their hands or their heads,
    or even open beer bottles with their teeth.
    There is a medium to long-term cost for all of that, and it catches up to you in middle age at the latest.
    I Have a much older friend in his 60's who use to kickbox and do breaking.
    Now he can't move his hands in the morning and hasn't been able to since his 30's. Years of beating the dog **** out of his hands has turned them to stone/iron without a doubt. a lump of iron that doesn't move.

  5. #5
    goodlun's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I highly doubt any of it has anything to do with bone density or any of that none sense.
    Packing on a nice layer of muscle will generally make you more resilient to being hit.
    A strong Neck, Core, and Legs will tend to be able to take more hits than a weak one.
    For exapmle there is some evidence that a strong "Chin" is very much so related to having a strong neck.
    http://www.livestrong.com/article/41...hin-in-boxing/
    Of the single rapier fight between valiant men, having both skill, he that is the best wrestler, or if neither of them can wrestle, the strongest man most commonly kills the other, or leaves him at his mercy.
    –George Silver, Paradoxes of Defence

  6. #6
    Cake of Doom's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Search out a poster here called Mor Sao. He has put loads of stuff up on iron conditioning. He also has some books out if your cash is burning a hole in your pocket.
    Train hard, fight easy.

  7. #7

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Body conditioning has many forms. There are great ways which are safe. You hear of people kicking trees to condition their legs 'cos they seen some mt guy do it'. Its good to deaden nerves so when your in your 40s you cant walk right. The practice is done on banana tress cos theyre soft. Kicking a pine tree or whatever is just dumb. Alot of people hear about something and dive straight in without proper research.

    In terms of qi, chi, ki whatever. Its all bullshit. The energy they talk about is exactly that. Sleep deprive a chi master and give him little food and see if his voodoo works. Alot of the 'magic' is just biomechanics, anyone can do it if you know. Stories like and old man who becones so stiff a 200 pound guy cant push him.

  8. #8

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Minor thought.

    A lot of the conditioning is to cause injury to the body in the knowledge that the body 'over heals'. Any site of injury is immediately targeted with a view to repairing at the earliest; there's a reason why you get swelling....As the saying goes, break a bone and it grows back twice as strong except that over time, the body, in striving for balance, will bring the density in the bone back to normal.

    Bone, owing to its lattice construction is said to be stronger than concrete. When you injure it, you're laying down more calcium. If you continue to target it, then you get calcification. If you look at anyone's knuckles, who is into 'breaking', you can see this and its associated knuckle spread. Also the callouses formed on the knuckle(s). Remember that the Hands are full of small bones and muscles etc, designed to allow delicate movement; say, watchmaking, drawing, painting. You lose a lot of this facility if you're continually 'breaking', you'll probably end up picking up your coffee/tea cup by using your wrists....If you stop breaking for an extended period and then resume the practice, you'll probably break your Hand. Remember, the point of 'homeostasis' and the body striving for balance?

    For Muay Thai stylists, my understanding is that they roll a stone, piece of bamboo, wood down the Shin to deaden the nerves....so either you lose all feeling or it comes back later when you stop the practice.

    Boxers use padding to protect the knuckles and wrapping to fix the padding and stabilise the wrist...and consider Ali had to take Cortisone injections to dull the pain or Naseem Hamed and his calcified knuckles.

    Mor Sao has far more knowledge and experience than I and can break coconuts, so he'll probably have a better and more informed view.
    Last edited by Eddie Hardon; 3/02/2016 3:52pm at . Reason: typos

  9. #9
    ChenPengFi's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Eddie Hardon View Post
    Minor thought.

    A lot of the conditioning is to cause injury to the body in the knowledge that the body 'over heals'. Any site of injury is immediately targeted with a view to repairing at the earliest; there's a reason why you get swelling....As the saying goes, break a bone and it grows back twice as strong except that over time, the body, in striving for balance, will bring the density in the bone back to normal.

    Bone, owing to its lattice construction is said to be stronger than concrete. When you injure it, you're laying down more calcium. If you continue to target it, then you get calcification. If you look at anyone's knuckles, who is into 'breaking', you can see this and its associated knuckle spread. Also the callouses formed on the knuckle(s). Remember that the Hands are full of small bones and muscles etc, designed to allow delicate movement; say, watchmaking, drawing, painting. You lose a lot of this facility if you're continually 'breaking', you'll probably end up picking up your coffee/tea cup by using your wrists....If you stop breaking for an extended period and then resume the practice, you'll probably break your Hand. Remember, the point of 'homeostasis' and the body striving for balance?

    For Muay Thai stylists, my understanding is that they roll a stone, piece of bamboo, wood down the Shin to deaden the nerves....so either you lose all feeling or it comes back later when you stop the practice.

    Boxers use padding to protect the knuckles and wrapping to fix the padding and stabilise the wrist...and consider Ali had to take Cortisone injections to dull the pain or Naseem Hamed and his calcified knuckles.

    Mor Sao has far more knowledge and experience than I and can break coconuts, so he'll probably have a better and more informed view.


    Damage isn't necessary (or ideal) for bone adaptation and that's a neurologically mediated process so "deadening the nerves" would be a bad idea.
    There's also a point of diminished returns with pain tolerance that one needs to be aware of.
    Too much painful conditioning (or damage) can make one more sensitive, which might be difficult or impossible to undo, as some evidence suggests.

  10. #10
    ChenPengFi's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Functional Adaptation to Loading of a Single Bone Is Neuronally Regulated and Involves Multiple Bones†
    Through a carefully designed series of experiments, the authors first showed that an intense mechanical challenge can translate to a remote anabolic response as far away as the contralateral control limb. The authors then showed that active innervation is critical to the transformation of local loading into an adaptive event, local or remote, because a local anesthetic administered before the mechanical stimulation abrogates the bone modeling response. Like a kick in the shin, this paper reminds us that ensuring the adaptive capacity of the bone may not be the responsibility of bone cells alone, and instead may rely on input and/or control from other cell populations contributing to the musculoskeletal “system.”

    http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/1...bmr.09901/full

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