218358 Bullies, 6460 online  
  • Register
Our Sponsors:

Results 81 to 90 of 100
Page 9 of 10 FirstFirst ... 56789 10 LastLast
Sponsored Links Spacer Image
  1. Peter H. is offline

    Professional Wrestler

    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    San Angelo, TX
    Posts
    2,470

    Posted On:
    8/25/2005 9:34am


     Style: Aikido-Kickboxing-Taichi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by wer
    I've talked face-to-face with a couple of people at different times who seemed perfectly reasonable and objective but swore that their senseis could throw them without touching, by using ki projection.

    Some people get no-touch projections confused with ki projection. Ryote-tori Tenchi-nage tenkan is a great example of this. If you get a guy truely committed to grabbing the wrist, you can throw him with out touching. But it isn't mystical, it's the Wily E Coyote effect. He over commits as you lead him on and you just step out of the way, he falls.

    It's also fairly useless except as a training exercise and for demonstrations because the odds of someone being that committed to a wrist grab in a real fight are incredible low. Still nice to know, because when you can do that, you can turn it into a pretty good throw from a mune-tsuki or shomen-uchi, and it retains some effectiveness in a tie up.

    The same comes from kata-te tori kokyunage tenkan (you can see O-Sensei do this on the clips on Aikidofaq.com). You commit hard and follow the hand, as the hand rises above your head, your eyes and head will follow it, and your feet run out from underneath you. No Ki projection, just an over commitment on the part of the uke.
    Last edited by Peter H.; 8/25/2005 9:13pm at .
    "Quiet fool before I am kicking the butt!"
    -My three year old trash talking to me

    "Integrity can't be bought or sold---you either have it or you don't."
    -The Honky Tonk Man

    "If you can't be a shining example, at least be a dire warning."
    -My Father to me one day

    "No surprise. Until Aikido sheds its street-brawling, thuggish image, it'll never be mainstream."
    -Don Gwinn
  2. Upyu is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Tokyo
    Posts
    287

    Posted On:
    8/25/2005 8:08pm


     Style: Aunkai, Tokyo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by EVIL ASIA
    So when it was my time to be uke I didn't go with it and grabbed the guy did ukiwaza (judo uber alles!) and rolled him into ikkajo. I was asked to leave at the first break. When I went back to my regular club I thought I was going to be lectured or asked to leave, didn't matter is was a free college club, but what I most of the club that the incident was funny (some of the die hard aikikai guys felt I was rude and disrespectful but wouldn't say it to me because they knew I would challenge them on it. I am a dick at times :rolleyes: )
    [
    Got a better story, though it wasn't during one of those "no-touch" ch1 throws.

    My current instructor was at some prominent aikido dojo here in japan with the Shihan giving some lecture, and he was asked to throw one of those retarded shomen uchi strikes.

    Only one my instructor threw it, he was grounded, and the Shihan got clobbered by the shomenuchi (literally crushed, and bonked on the head) right in front of the students.

    Which brings me to a different tangent,

    I would agree with a lot of the anti-aikido people in that the Aikido techniques are useless, if only because they lack a severe component which makes them work.

    Structure.

    There's a good post on the Aikibunny site Aikiweb by a guy Mike Sigman whose thoughts almost exactly mirror my instructors.

    His post was as follows:
    (Taken from http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showth...?t=8645&page=4 )
    [QUOTE=
    There's a trick you can do with your body if you relax and practice a lot. You can let a path from the ground run from your foot (or whatever has access to the ground; even your butt in a chair) to wherever you want. You can even stand still and move it where you want it (without having to move) and after a while it will be where it needs to be without thinking. Some people can develop the skill to where it is so strong and so automatic that if you push against them with your hand you'll feel something like a blurry pencil-eraser under the skin where you're touching. I can lie down on a massage table and counter the direction of rub from the therapist wih the ground path and he/she will comment that I feel like lead.

    All the real "Kokyu Power", "Fa Jing", "power releases", etc., use this power in conjunction with "ki" (which is too involved to get into here). You use ground power for pushes, hits, kicks, withstanding blows, etc. It's the ground power that Tohei and O-Sensei and others are demonstrating in most of the pictures of "ki strength" (notice that they're usually showing some odd posture that still somehow stops a push, etc., from someone... they're showing you how they can manipulate the ground). They're demonstrating that kind of ground power because it is crucial to Aikido.... not because it's a cute parlour trick, etc., that some people think.
    [[/QUOTE]

    And this "Ground path" he's describing is the "fundamental" for any of the more complex arts to work. **** gets even more complex from there.
    Once you get this to work, you don't need technique, although the typical aikido training that you see in the dojo can help refine this body skill once you have it.

    But if you don't have this skill to begin with, then well, the aikido techniques in of themselves are crap.

    Yesterday my instructor did an interesting demo where he was laying down on the ground, back to the floor, spread eagle.

    Then he had one of us literally kneel on his forearm. And with zero twisting, offing of vectors, etc, he could just "grab" the persons center, literally lifting them into the air from a position where he should have zero leverage.

    Luan (who got to meet him last month) likened it to BJJ in that he was generating the leverage, but without the positioning.

    Anyways, this kind of body skill is most likely the "Ki" "Qi" "Ch1!" that everyone talks about, and yea its rare cuz it does take talent to grasp.

    And you can't project the groundpath outside of you. Anyone falling down to their knees by a no touch whatever deserves to be sprayed by da ch!. O' Master! :notworthy spray me more!
    Last edited by Upyu; 8/25/2005 8:24pm at .
  3. wer is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Massachusetts
    Posts
    115

    Posted On:
    8/25/2005 9:03pm


     Style: Aikido

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    [ki blast] I don't want to hijack the thread, but I do need to borrow it for a moment.[/ki blast]

    Quote Originally Posted by xingyifa
    I know some people think what delucia does isn't really aikido
    Since it was too off-topic for this thread, Jason responded to this at http://www.bullshido.net/forums/show...622#post711622
  4. wer is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Massachusetts
    Posts
    115

    Posted On:
    8/25/2005 9:08pm


     Style: Aikido

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Upyu
    Yesterday my instructor did an interesting demo where he was laying down on the ground, back to the floor, spread eagle.

    Then he had one of us literally kneel on his forearm. And with zero twisting, offing of vectors, etc, he could just "grab" the persons center, literally lifting them into the air from a position where he should have zero leverage.
    I would love to see that so I could look at it with my engineer eyes and try to decide for myself how he was generating the necessary torque. Any chance you're anywhere near New England, US? Your profile doesn't say.
  5. Peter H. is offline

    Professional Wrestler

    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    San Angelo, TX
    Posts
    2,470

    Posted On:
    8/25/2005 9:26pm


     Style: Aikido-Kickboxing-Taichi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Upyu
    Which brings me to a different tangent,

    I would agree with a lot of the anti-aikido people in that the Aikido techniques are useless, if only because they lack a severe component which makes them work.

    Structure.
    What!?!

    There's a good post on the Aikibunny site Aikiweb by a guy Mike Sigman whose thoughts almost exactly mirror my instructors.

    His post was as follows:
    (Taken from http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showth...?t=8645&page=4 )


    And this "Ground path" he's describing is the "fundamental" for any of the more complex arts to work. **** gets even more complex from there.
    Once you get this to work, you don't need technique, although the typical aikido training that you see in the dojo can help refine this body skill once you have it.

    But if you don't have this skill to begin with, then well, the aikido techniques in of themselves are crap.

    Yesterday my instructor did an interesting demo where he was laying down on the ground, back to the floor, spread eagle.

    Then he had one of us literally kneel on his forearm. And with zero twisting, offing of vectors, etc, he could just "grab" the persons center, literally lifting them into the air from a position where he should have zero leverage.

    Luan (who got to meet him last month) likened it to BJJ in that he was generating the leverage, but without the positioning.

    Anyways, this kind of body skill is most likely the "Ki" "Qi" "Ch1!" that everyone talks about, and yea its rare cuz it does take talent to grasp.

    And you can't project the groundpath outside of you. Anyone falling down to their knees by a no touch whatever deserves to be sprayed by da ch!. O' Master! :notworthy spray me more!
    Huh!?!
    "Quiet fool before I am kicking the butt!"
    -My three year old trash talking to me

    "Integrity can't be bought or sold---you either have it or you don't."
    -The Honky Tonk Man

    "If you can't be a shining example, at least be a dire warning."
    -My Father to me one day

    "No surprise. Until Aikido sheds its street-brawling, thuggish image, it'll never be mainstream."
    -Don Gwinn
  6. Upyu is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Tokyo
    Posts
    287

    Posted On:
    8/25/2005 9:54pm


     Style: Aunkai, Tokyo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by wer
    I would love to see that so I could look at it with my engineer eyes and try to decide for myself how he was generating the necessary torque. Any chance you're anywhere near New England, US? Your profile doesn't say.
    We're in Tokyo unfortunately :(

    Heh, looking at him you prolly wouldn't be able to see how he's getting the connection.

    Already did a post on him here:
    http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=26158
    when I was trying to get new students to check him out. (Luan wrote a testy of how it felt on page 10 for any doubters)

    This site (yea its a cma site, shoot me)
    http://www.cbox.cz/baguaquan/mabu-en.htm
    explains the most basic mechanics of creating a ground path. And it would probably make sense to anyone w/ an understanding of physics/engineering. But basically he's able to generate this kind of leverage w/ out the arch that the article mentions.

    As always, words can only say so much. Seeing isn't believing, feeling is =D
  7. ArmchairNinja is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    179

    Posted On:
    8/25/2005 10:09pm


     Style: BJJ/Karate

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Upyu, your ground force sounds like same bullshit in a different package.
  8. WarriorOfLuv is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Toronto
    Posts
    227

    Posted On:
    8/26/2005 1:04am


     Style: Russian boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by ArmchairNinja
    Upyu, your ground force sounds like same bullshit in a different package.
    Either it's hypnotism or his instructor has a genius grasp of biomechanics. In that case, Up's instructor has discovered a valuable truth. However, it is getting real annoying how dude has to mention his instructor in virtually every post on aikiweb and bullshido. Give it a rest, Up.


    P.s.--I believe Up's instructor is a rare find and Up is fortunate to study under him.
    Last edited by WarriorOfLuv; 8/26/2005 1:13am at .
  9. Upyu is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Tokyo
    Posts
    287

    Posted On:
    8/26/2005 1:08am


     Style: Aunkai, Tokyo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by ArmchairNinja
    Upyu, your ground force sounds like same bullshit in a different package.
    So does your vapid response Armchair. :icon_puke


    Warrior: Sorry about the shameless plug :-p Just trying to keep that thread alive, maybe pick up a few good practice partners along the way.
  10. Mr Punch is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Tokyo
    Posts
    18

    Posted On:
    2/19/2006 9:09am


     Style: shooto (MMA), _ng_n, aiki

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Laying this one to rest.

    Hey kids.

    Anyone who wanted to test Shihan Ralph Reynolds' no touch throws out has now missed their chance. He died of cancer about three weeks ago.

    So, I'm not gonna speak ill of the dead. Plus, for 9 years he was my shihan. But I will say his no-touch throws were complete bullshit. Don't worry your good little selves, it didn't take me ten years to find this out.

    Ralph was a very nice man at times, and a very difficult man at other times. Generally very nice. That's the testimonial out the way.

    I did aikido in the UK from 1990 till 1999 (when I moved to Japan), mostly under Ralph's organisation, the British Aikido Fellowship. In the first couple of years I saw him doing some very good aikido, at decreasing frequencies. Strong, well-positioned, well-timed, definitely contact and plenty of it, good body connectivity, centred, relaxed etc etc: all of the necessary elements of an effective grappling art. And I felt it as his uke on occasion, and saw him doing it on newbies, people he didn't know and people from different aiki orgs, and other martial arts.

    Over the years, and some of the people close to him from the start said this to him, what he started teaching was increasingly flakey, increasingly no-touch ki BS of the worst order. By the worst order I'm sure I don't need to tell you good Bullshido readers some of the horrors that I witnessed!

    But I will anyway: no-touch throws on trained monkeys (sorry, ukes), no-touch pins on people doing an impression of a gaffed fish, ki seminars involving directives to lie down and imagine you were lying on a beach with beach sounds playing in the background (tho no beach in the UK: there was no sound of scallies nicking your towel!) et fucking cetera. From this time on, he would decreasingly choose anyone from outside his immediate 'training' circle to be his uke.

    For me, one ki seminar was enough.

    The old guard: the bouncers (including people who succesfully ran their bouncing seminars to teach new bouncers up to their NVQs), LEOs (including a prominant member of the local constabulary who always taught us the techs which worked, based on his earlier learning from Reynolds Shihan and from his own experience as an unarmed combat trainer in the police, a riot police trainer in the UK and Holland among others, and from many years on the force), the cross-trainers (with multiple dan grades in karate, kendo, and reality guys with their gun-club memberships) etc etc... the old guard who'd been faithful to him from the start, scratched and shook their heads, and eventually drifted off into different organisations. Some of them stayed and tried to reason with him, some of them took corners of his mat at the seminars and taught the good stuff while the rest of the room was floating on ki gas, some of them (like me) were too junior to say much of anything and just weathered it out with the good guys (I did challenge some of the things I saw a few times publicly - but with no effect other than to piss off the top knobs... sorry, brass).

    I should say at this point that Ralph was not my direct sensei, tho I saw him probably twice a week for a good many years.

    I'm not going to say much more, because my sensei is a very good teacher, and still loyal to the memory of what Reynolds Shihan had achieved in the early days, and because although what I say is of course my opinion, it will affect my sensei if it gets out who I am.

    I will just say this: as you've probably read if you've checked any history on the web, Ralph Reynolds was one of the pioneers of aiki in the UK. He was a dan-graded old-skool judoka before he met Abbe Kenshiro Shihan in maybe '56, and maybe that's why he hit it off with Abbe as Abbe had gone to the UK to teach Judo and Aikido. There is no doubt that the aiki in the UK at the beginning was good stuff (if you have any faith that any aiki was ever good stuff!). Ralph learned from Abbe and Chiba directly, and was the first (I'm pretty sure - certainly one of the first and one of the only) man to receive a shodan certificate from Ueshiba (Abbe and maybe Chiba graded him and reported back to Japan to get the old man's OK) in the days when although some of Ueshiba's aiki was probably getting a bit flakey for some on here, there were still some very powerful lieutenants among his direct students.

    I don't remember what Reynolds Shihan's last officially recognised grading was, but he started to grade himself and those around him. Fair enough I say. He didn't have any contact with the hombu, and his skills were very well-proven. I think a couple of years ago he was recognised as sixth dan by some aikikai representative, and that's how he presented himself to aikikai reps even when he'd given himself eighth in his own organisation. TBH, I still don't see anything wrong with that.

    But for the blatant load of old crap that for some reason he drifted off into in the last couple of years, when I really feel honoured to have seen, felt and learned just a modicum of his original skills, I find it difficult to reconcile with my feelings towards my old shihan and his organisation.

    Nowadays there are a couple of satellite schools in the organisation who are still teaching (good) aikido. No BS, no claims of superpowers, no delusions about the many possibilities of what can happen in the streets, no ki blasts, no no-touch bollocks, and above all, a lot of experience of using and sometimes having failed to be able to use aiki in the streets. Good body mechanics, good basics, that belong in any good grappling art, and that I personally have carried over with me into a further dan-grade in kendo, my kungfu training, sparring with others of other arts, and my shooto school (well, the school I was going to and hope to return to).

    But I wouldn't touch most of that organisation with a barge pole if I were starting again today. It's the only school I've trained in (tho unfortunately I guess they're all over the place) where the dan grades have to do less as they get higher, and prove less. God help them if they ever get attacked on the street.
Page 9 of 10 FirstFirst ... 56789 10 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Powered by vBulletin™© contact@vbulletin.com vBulletin Solutions, Inc. 2011 All rights reserved.