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  1. #41
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Dr. Tzu is pretty much onto the sort of thing I am on about...to cover my own arse for the purposes of this debate I am not saying I agree entirely but we are indeed on the same page.

  2. #42
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Correct Me If I'm Wrong, But To My Understanding, Muay Boran Is An Ancient Style Used By Warriors In Battle If They Somehow Lose Their Weapon. So Obviously, It Is Designed To Be Much More Deadly And Efficient Than Normal Muay Thai.

    "Muay Boran's form is quite efficient, in that it maximizes the amount of damage that each blow can inflict, and effective, in that it can easily lead to the death or serious injury of the opponent."

  3. #43
    Diesel_tke's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Holy ****! I just spend 5 minutes typing up a reply to this thread then looked up and realized some stupid NOOB necroed a thread that is 4 years old.

    And that is your first post. Go read the damn rules. ****!!
    Last edited by Diesel_tke; 5/09/2009 7:09am at .

  4. #44

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack_MuayThai View Post
    Correct Me If I'm Wrong, But To My Understanding, Muay Boran Is An Ancient Style Used By Warriors In Battle If They Somehow Lose Their Weapon. So Obviously, It Is Designed To Be Much More Deadly And Efficient Than Normal Muay Thai.

    "Muay Boran's form is quite efficient, in that it maximizes the amount of damage that each blow can inflict, and effective, in that it can easily lead to the death or serious injury of the opponent."
    I was a noob not that long ago so I am going to be generous and answer you question sincerly wnd without (well I'll try) sarcasm.

    Deadly and efficient martial arts have very little place on an ancient battlefield. Victory in said "ancient" times relied far more on the organisation of your army and the TEAM element whereby each group within your army works together for an overall strategy. The reason the ROMANS dominated Europe for 600 plus years was due to ORGANISATION and STRATEGY.

    One DEADLY soldier trained in all manner of lethal and deadly arts does not win a battle when faced with 100 soldiers with SHARP POINTY WEAPONS. Battles are won by organising your force and using each units strength eg CALVARY, ARCHERS and so forth. So forget battlefield application as if you lost you weapon the only use you martial art would have would be to disarm an opponent and get another weapon (a useful an important role but by no means the MOST useful or important).

    Someone pointed out a very simple and true statement to me the other day. If you can't land a general punch or kick on an opponent what makes you think you can land a precise blow to the throat or any other vital area. REMEMBER most of the techniques in Muay Thai as a sport would be deadly if delivered without padded gloves and so forth.

  5. #45

    Join Date
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Aye, what he said. I would like to put it in other words, so hopefully no one will miss the point (again):

    Ever since the first apeman happened to pick up a piece of wood to slaughter his neighbourape, military martial arts have been about weapons.

    Since that time, no one on this planet faught a war without them. None. Ever. Since.

    Thai soldiers where using swords and spears in battle. If someone lost them (his weapon is THE most important thing a soldier carries with him in battle, so the ammount of soldiers "loosing" them is near zero btw) they tried to get another one. As soon as possible.

    Try to go barehanded against somewone with a sword and you are dead meat. Deadly tricks or not. Thats why the bloody things where invented firsthand.

  6. #46

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    That, and ancient battlefields arts are very easy to spot- THEY INVOLVE USING WEAPONS. Krabi Krabong- Check

    Muay Boran- not so much.

    Also, arts that are actually ancient....unlikely to have the word "ancient" in their name. They weren't ancient when being practiced.

  7. #47

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    sds

    vblah:deadhorse

  8. #48
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I imagine old-school Thai unarmed fighting stressed techniques against armored opponents a lot more. I read somewhere that the end of the Sengoku period in Japan, which ushered in an era of peace where samurai rarely wore armor, initiated a sea change in Japanese unarmed combat systems (and martial arts in general). In the past it involved a lot of just pushing opponents over and kicking or stomping them to death, or restraining them to take as prisoners, or responding to attempts at all of these. It also saw the end of the need for rigid-body penetration training, which had been useful for getting through wood or metal armor.

    I think a similar process would have taken place in Thailand, as well as China, Greece, and anywhere else people trained for unarmed military combat.

  9. #49
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by KidSpatula View Post
    On another forum there's been a bit of a debate over martial arts vs. combat sports (common debate, I know). One of the arguments brought up was that muay boran, being the more traditional and kung fu like, with it's one hundred additional moves, is the more deadly predecessor to muay thai. It was stated that these 100 additional moves were taken out because they are "too deadly for the ring". My thoughts on this are that muay thai (at least until fairly recently) consisted of very dangerous strikes including downward spikey elbows to the top of the head and knees to the face. It would be my GUESS that the 100 extra moves were removed simply to make muay thai training more efficient, and that the additional moves have survived over time largely due to traditionalist sentiments of the thai people.

    Any thoughts, or info on this subject? I really don't know much about the history or evolution of muay thai, so if anyone could provide some resources on the subject I'd be really interested to read. Thanks.
    When I was out training in Thailand, my trainers showed me some Muay Boran techniques. A lot of them are not allowed in competition now, but some are tricks that you can still get away with... for example, if someone has the plumb position you can grind your forehead against theirs to get them to break hold. Pretty cool stuff.

  10. #50

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Cool, when were you out in Thailand?

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