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  1. Bil Gee is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/20/2005 6:03pm


     Style: Wing Chun

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Wing Chun Origin Stories

    The standard story that seems to be passed down the Yip Man lines about Ng Mui developing a system for Wing Tsun to beat up an admirer seems to be about the only one around on the internet. Wikipedia offers a different and as far as I can determine unique origin story with Wing Chun having been developed by assassins to get past guards.

    Wikipedia Link


    there doesn't seem to be much in the way of references for this account though.

    Anyway, does anyone know whether there's any real basis for this alternative?

    Also, how many other origin stories are there floating around?
  2. Aesopian is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/20/2005 7:26pm

    Business Class Supporting Member
     Aesopian.com 

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by GraveDigger
    wing chun wuz inventad by yip man won aftarnoon when hee and i were sittang arownd in my aparatmant smokang sheesha . it wuz some preemo stuff taht day so we were stowned owt uv owr gourds. i dun think i cud feel my fayce 4 several ours. liek tehre wuz taht 1 tyme i did horse tranquilizers but this wuz just my face it wuz reelay weerd . so n e way yip si sittang on teh cowch starang in 2 spayce when all uf a suddan he jumpz up and skreems HOLAY FUKK I'VE GOT IT!! and falls 4ward on 2 teh beenbag chare and start laffang liek a crayzay man. now i wuz kinda puzzeled taht he said it in inglesh and not cantonese but i wuz determined 2 find owt wut was so funnay. i role him ovar so he duz not pass owt and he is still laughang going d00d I SHUD INVENT A MARSHAL ART and im liek wtf are u talking abowt and he's like NO SERIOUSLY MAN IT WILL B SO KEWL and i'm liek man yip u r stoned owt uv yur fukking mind but he won't listen 2 me and just starts saying stuff liek OK U NO HOW EVERY 1 PUNCHAS W/ THY'RE SHOLDARS WELL IN MY SYSTAM NO 1 SI ALOUD 2 UZE THERE SHOLDARS 2 PUNCH and i say d00d u r crazy how will u be aybel 2 hit peepel and he's all THATS TEH POYNTE MAN IT WILL BE SOOOOOOOO FUNNAY INSTEAD U WILL PUNCH REELAY FAST AND STAND LIEK THIS at witch poynte he sorta wobbles in 2 wat he callz a goat stance but he wuz so fukked up it was probablay an aksident b/c keep in minde wile he se dooang this he si taykang massive hits off teh hooka but n e way i wuz like d00d how will u fite n e 1 with this carp and he sez LOL TAHTS TEH POYNTE PEEPS WILL JUST TALK AND TALK AND TALK AND TALK AND TALK AND TALK AND (at this point he fallz down lol) OW **** ME LOL I AM SO HIGH RITE NOW U SEE TAHT PEEPLE WILL BE LIEK WOW THIS STUFF IZ SO DIFFERANT AND WACKY BECUZ IT WURKS NOT BECUZ EVERY 1 ELSE NOWZ TAHT STANDANG LIEK A PIDGEON HUNCHBACK SI DUMB AND I WILL BE ALL ROFL AND STUFF HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA and tehn he just sor uf rowled ovar and started 2 drool on himself
    he sayd he'd naym teh art aftar teh guy who sold us teh hash and teh next mornang he si up at fukkin fowr in teh mornang hopped up on dust maykang teh wooden dummay owt of vareeus drug paraphenalia and towld me he inventad the first form a few owars b 4 while in teh showar tryang 2 wash teh bugz off hiz skin
    :911flag:
  3. Thaiboxerken is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/20/2005 7:29pm

    supporting member
     Style: Kru-MuayThai,GJJ-Blue

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    However it originated, it still sucks.
    "Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities." – Voltaire.
  4. Bil Gee is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/20/2005 8:05pm


     Style: Wing Chun

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Thought this was supposed to be a troll free bit of the forum?
  5. Dr._Tzun_Tzu is offline
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    It's pretty beat up, but it is a complete copy....

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    Posted On:
    8/22/2005 1:12am

    supporting member
     Style: EBMAS WT/ Latosa Concepts

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    There is an Origin story that Assasians on the Red Junk used it. When the boat was in town for an Opera, the assasians would sneak into town to kill evil political figures. This version has something like 24 forms, the same first 6, plus others that each specialize in a different attack or weapon. The Third form, Biu Tze, in WT has some "darting Finger" movements. This other version has a form for throwing Darts, specifically. It is all covered in "complete Wing Chun" by Chu, Richie, and Wu.

    Another origin is that the Nun story was made up to hide the rebels. They would travel as Nuns to avoid searches and molestation from the Manchurians.

    Another Story told by Yip Man was that the Nun witnessed a Fox and Crane fighting. Leung Ting Traced the Fox aspect of the story to southern China/ Northern Burma, where a Flying Fox or Monkey Style is the root of Muy Thai. This root style has a similar form to Siu Nim Tau and the Southern White Crane temple is very close to there. Leung Ting theorizes the Nun must have meet up with these other Flying monkey stylists and combined the two. He has found evidence of both the Nun Ng Mui and the girl Yim Wing Tsun in the Historical records, but WC people don't want to hear it. Since Snake and Crane is really a Tai Chi Chuan story, I always get a laugh when WC people use it.

    My version is that the clans of China all banded together to fight the Manchurians. All Kung Fu was refined by the rebel leaders into a fast quick to learn simple style. After the Revolution slowed down, the Clans all returned to their homes, becoming Tiger and Mantis and Hung Gar or whatever again. Some people had nowhere to return to, and thus the style of the revolution was all they had. So they called it Wing Tsun and practiced it in secret or small groups. The Temple Monks must have had a High level style in secret, which helped them teach this new fast style to the revolutionary's. Maybe some of them created what we think of in this time.

    Some people think it was just Hung Gar.

    Dr. Leung Jan was a famous Pharmacist in more modern times. He perfected it and refined it into what we see today, in the Yip Man branches, and possible some others. If it was really just small style hung gar before, it was Dr. Jan that made it into it's own thing.
    Last edited by Dr._Tzun_Tzu; 12/13/2006 9:28pm at . Reason: spelling
  6. Bil Gee is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/22/2005 8:28am


     Style: Wing Chun

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr._Tzun_Tzu
    There is an Origin story that Assasians on the Red Junk used it. When the boat was in town for an Opera, the assasians would sneak into town to kill evil political figures. This version has something like 24 forms, the same first 6, plus others that each specialize in a different attack or weapon. The Third form, Biu Tze, in WT has some "darting Finger" movements. This other version has a form for throwing Darts, specifically. It is all covered in "complete Wing Chun" by Chu, Richie, and Wu.

    Another origion is that the Nun story was made up to hide the rebels. They would travel as Nuns to avoid searchs and molestation from the Manchurians.

    Another Story told by Yip Man was that the Nun witnessed a Fox and Crane fighting. Leung Ting Traced the Fox aspect of the story to southern China/ Northern Burma, where a Flying Fox or Monkey Style is the root of Muy Thai. This root style has a similear form to Siu Nim Tau and the Southern White Crane temple is very close to there. Leung Ting theorizes the Nun must have meet up with these other Flying Monky stylists and combined the two. He has found evidence of both the Nun Ng Mui and the girl Yim Wing Tsun in the Historical records, but WC people don't want to hear it. Since Snake and Crane is really a Tai Chi Chuan story, I always get a laugh when WC people use it.

    My version is that the clans of China all banded together to fight the Manchurians. All Kung Fu was refined by the rebel leaders into a fast quick to learn simple style. After the Revolution slowed down, the Clans all returned to their homes, becomeing Tiger and Mantis and Hung Gar or whatever again. Some people had nowhere to return to, and thus the style of the revolution was all they had. So they called it Wing Tsun and practiced it in secret or small groups. The Temple Monks must have had a High level style in secret, which helped them teach this new fast style to the revolutionarys. Maybe some of them created what we think of in this time.

    Some people think it was just Hung Gar.

    Dr. Leung Jan was a famous Pharmasist in more modern times. He Perfected it and refined it into what we see today, in the Yip Man branchs, and possible some others. If it was really just small style hung gar before, it was Dr. Jan that made it into it's own thing.

    Thanks for the info.

    What sources did you use?
  7. Dr._Tzun_Tzu is offline
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    It's pretty beat up, but it is a complete copy....

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    Posted On:
    8/22/2005 10:19am

    supporting member
     Style: EBMAS WT/ Latosa Concepts

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    "Roots of Wing Tsun" by Dr. Leung Ting

    "Complete Wing Chun" by Chu, Richie, and Wu
  8. brianlkennedy is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/23/2005 3:03am


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    What most people in North America do not realize is that Wing Chun is an offshoot of Crane Boxing. That fact seems well known in Fukien and here in Taiwan but fairly unknown in the west. Simply because the Wing Chun folks were trying to establish a brand name recognition for their version of Crane Boxing in their english language stuff they have made up the bullshido about being a separate art created out of thin air by the nun fighting the crane and/or the daughter trying to get out of a marriage.

    My sources include:
    1 .永春鄭禮叔教傳教本Yongchun Zheng Li-Shu’s Teaching Text
    2 .白鶴仙師祖傳真法 “Authentic Teaching Passed Down from White Crane Immortal Teacher”
    3 . 白鶴拳家正法Authentic Methods of White Crane Boxing
    4 . 自述切要條文` Major Points in My Account
    5 . 桃源拳術Taoyuan Boxing
    6 . 方七娘拳祖 “White Crane Boxing’s Founder Fang Qi-Niang
    7. 拳理妙法 Ingenious Methods of Boxing Systems
    8. 白鶴門食鶴拳 White Crane Feeding Crane School Boxing by Liu Gu 劉故
    9. 金台山勤習堂傳習錄Jintai Mountain Qinxu Hall Study Manual


    The history of Crane Boxing and its offshoots (including Wing Chun) is interesting but I suspect will remain hard to pin down barring some remarkable new historical documents being discovered.

    Take care,
    Brian
    p.s. if you ever want to do an Official Bullshido investigation "Dr." Leung Ting would be a great starting point. Him and his books "red line" the b.s. meter.
  9. Bil Gee is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/23/2005 6:31am


     Style: Wing Chun

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by brianlkennedy
    What most people in North America do not realize is that Wing Chun is an offshoot of Crane Boxing. That fact seems well known in Fukien and here in Taiwan but fairly unknown in the west. Simply because the Wing Chun folks were trying to establish a brand name recognition for their version of Crane Boxing in their english language stuff they have made up the bullshido about being a separate art created out of thin air by the nun fighting the crane and/or the daughter trying to get out of a marriage.

    My sources include:
    1 .永春鄭禮叔教傳教本Yongchun Zheng Li-Shu’s Teaching Text
    2 .白鶴仙師祖傳真法 “Authentic Teaching Passed Down from White Crane Immortal Teacher”
    3 . 白鶴拳家正法Authentic Methods of White Crane Boxing
    4 . 自述切要條文` Major Points in My Account
    5 . 桃源拳術Taoyuan Boxing
    6 . 方七娘拳祖 “White Crane Boxing’s Founder Fang Qi-Niang
    7. 拳理妙法 Ingenious Methods of Boxing Systems
    8. 白鶴門食鶴拳 White Crane Feeding Crane School Boxing by Liu Gu 劉故
    9. 金台山勤習堂傳習錄Jintai Mountain Qinxu Hall Study Manual


    The history of Crane Boxing and its offshoots (including Wing Chun) is interesting but I suspect will remain hard to pin down barring some remarkable new historical documents being discovered.

    Take care,
    Brian
    p.s. if you ever want to do an Official Bullshido investigation "Dr." Leung Ting would be a great starting point. Him and his books "red line" the b.s. meter.
    What do you know about Leung Ting then?
  10. dramaboy is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/23/2005 11:24am


     Style: -

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    This makes more sense that anything else I'w sen written on WC history.

    One thing I'm trying to understand: why would one pick a helpless and fragile creature like crane to be a mascot of his deadly fighting art? It must be something cultural.
    Meerkat boxing?
    Koala grappling?

    Tomas




    Quote Originally Posted by brianlkennedy
    What most people in North America do not realize is that Wing Chun is an offshoot of Crane Boxing. That fact seems well known in Fukien and here in Taiwan but fairly unknown in the west. Simply because the Wing Chun folks were trying to establish a brand name recognition for their version of Crane Boxing in their english language stuff they have made up the bullshido about being a separate art created out of thin air by the nun fighting the crane and/or the daughter trying to get out of a marriage.

    My sources include:
    1 .永春鄭禮叔教傳教本Yongchun Zheng Li-Shu’s Teaching Text
    2 .白鶴仙師祖傳真法 “Authentic Teaching Passed Down from White Crane Immortal Teacher”
    3 . 白鶴拳家正法Authentic Methods of White Crane Boxing
    4 . 自述切要條文` Major Points in My Account
    5 . 桃源拳術Taoyuan Boxing
    6 . 方七娘拳祖 “White Crane Boxing’s Founder Fang Qi-Niang
    7. 拳理妙法 Ingenious Methods of Boxing Systems
    8. 白鶴門食鶴拳 White Crane Feeding Crane School Boxing by Liu Gu 劉故
    9. 金台山勤習堂傳習錄Jintai Mountain Qinxu Hall Study Manual


    The history of Crane Boxing and its offshoots (including Wing Chun) is interesting but I suspect will remain hard to pin down barring some remarkable new historical documents being discovered.

    Take care,
    Brian
    p.s. if you ever want to do an Official Bullshido investigation "Dr." Leung Ting would be a great starting point. Him and his books "red line" the b.s. meter.
    Current stage of death: denial
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