We were doing that exactly last night. I found two problems.
The first is when they flip to thier back and you don't have control of that 2nd leg you are vulnerable to the triangle.
The second problem is when (in picture #3) they post with thier right hand, and use thier left hand on my knee so they can pin it and step out. While we were drilling with some resistance my partner almost mounted me from here.
What do you think?
Nooooo, they're all red x's!
- never mind
1) I see what you mean, but I haven't really had that problem when rolling and I can't give any more advice than what you'd know about anyway. Oh, try to control on his calf rather than behind his thigh and that should make it difficult for him to triangle you.
2) You can do two things there:
a) I usually control their right sleeve with my left hand, put my left knee in their bicep and convert to a spiderguard sweep.
b) Kick the crap out of their far leg (always do this anyway - never let him get a solid base) to get the weight off his left leg and push his left leg over my head. Get my hooks in, grab his belt and take his back.
My instructor also showed me a crazy sweep to do from that position but I can't remember it unfortunately. I'll have to ask him again.
I love the fact that there are so many experienced dudes on here willing to help out bjj beginners like me. I'm not near this level yet, but it's nice to know that I can get this info whenever I need it. Props all around, thanks again guys.
Originally Posted by Yrkoon9
I think a triangle from that position is very VERY unlikely. I've got a real good triangle and have never pulled it off while being swept like this.
Yeah, my numbering was wrong. LOL. I meant between pictures #5 and #6. Basically when he is on all fours he turns over and you are trying to drive forward. He turns over and one of your arms is already holding his leg becomes the one NOT trapped. In this series he would be grabbing your left arm and pulling you in.
Also I like the Xguard sweep because once you take the guys balance he can fall forward or backwards. If he falls backwards, again you have to watch that triangle. If you just drive up you arm AGAIN is hooked underneath. You gotta watch yourself there.
Like in photo #3 he knows you want to take him froward but he sits back. Either way he is screwed.
I am long and lanky so butterfly guard works awesome for me, once I get moving I have long levers to sweep. But when they stand I have to crunch myself up a little to get the leg. Things get back in my favor when I extend them out and take thier base. I am really trying to work the Xguard these days but everyone knows my butterfly guard game. They simply won't stand up and let me get it. They base back and pin my legs/ankles to the ground. Which is EXACTLY what they should be doing. So getting to the Xguard is more of them screwing up than me going for the technique. In short, setting it up becomes difficult for me.
Now I will say I haven't been triangled after the sweep. But I have recognized the opportunities my opponents have had because I was driving so hard for the sweep I became overcommited. If they had gotten my arm for a good pull I would have been in trouble. The reason I mention it is because the thought 'WATCH THE TRIANGLE' has gone through my head a couple of times.
Supposedly Garcia has this **** down, with every consequence and possibility covered. But I am too cheap to buy his DVD's. My Xguard work is admittedly pretty basic. I can take em to the front and to the rear. They have to almost give me the position and I have trouble with my opponents if the are not wearing the gi. Like last night. No gi Xguard seems crazy impossible. If I cannot get ahold of a sleeve they are like trying to hold greased soap.
Anyways I am going to keep working on this stuff. Maybe its more of a novelty than anything else but I am convinced there is some connection between butterfly/xguard/half guard that I am not getting. Individually I can control the positions, but the transitions between them seem to be evading me.
I don't actually want to drive him backwards when in the last two pics, I simply want to stand straight up which in turn will make him flip.
From butterfly sweep if they grab your ankles it's great. Sit your ass in close, nail their left hand to your right ankle with your right hand and do the sweep. He won't have any base now.
By taking them backwards, I mean around photo #3.
And when Im talking about them pinning my ankles it usually occurs from the pop up, before I can get thier posture broken or get my arm around thier back or anything. The guys I work out with are very wary of my butterfly guard.
When I try to get it, they base out wide and far, push down and immediately try to pass. They know if they screw around I will scoot underneath them and begin working. I can't jump into the X guard if my feet are pinned down. That is where I *WANT* to go. Because usually they are standing, feet way back and wide just begging for it. But being pinned down I have to try and break thier grip off my ankles and scoot up under them. Then its a huge battle as I try to break the grip while they are trying to run around, drive a knee through, etc.
You are saying scoot in close, and Im saying they won't let me. They are starting to pass. The puzzle I am trying to unlock is hard to explain. Almost need video I guess. I want butterfly, they pin the ankles and begin to pass. I try to scoot in and break a grip off, maybe try for an armdrag. They keep trying to turn a corner or get my knees squeezed together. I am trying to keep butterfly while breaking thier posture. They keep thier legs back so I cant get proper hooks in. I yank one hand off. They try to drive one knee through. I have to go to half guard. They try to keep passing. I try to get back to butterfly guard and eventually Xguard. They want no part of the butterfly so they base back out again on thier feet and pin the ankles.
Its such a vicious fight at this point I am looking for 'the easy' answer LOL. I mean I know what I gotta do. The problem is, the other guys know it too. So I want to be able to transition between butterfly/halfguard/Xguard either a)better b)faster c)both.
Ah, I see what you're saying now. I was thinking the guy was on his knees, not standing. I think you're on the right track with the armdrag. However, I think the solution is not countering them once they've got your ankles, but stopping them getting control of your ankles in the first place. How is that happening? In the other pictures I showed of my favourite guard, the reason I like the collar and sleeve grips are that gives me a good control straight away of one of my opponent's arms. I don't mind him grabbing one of my legs, but no way will I let him have both.