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  1. katana is offline

    Capitalist Pig

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    Posted On:
    1/01/2006 10:02pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ, no-gi, boxing

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by haughty
    I agree. It seems like a lot of the criticism against Phil & his writings can be divided into two general classifications: 1) Ad hominen arguments, usually attacking his lack of advanced MA skills. 2) Imprecise comments taken out of context in order to make him look foolish. In both cases, the criticisms usually fall flat. Bullshido's ridiculous Pax Baculum "FAQ" is a perfect example of this.
    Where in the Pax Baculum FAQ are there comments from Phil Elmore taken out of context to make him look foolish? Also, Phil Elmore is trying to represent himself as an authority on the subject of self-defense. That makes it perfectly reasonable to question his credentials in the field and certainly doesn't make them "Ad Hominem" attacks.
  2. JKDChick is offline
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    Senior Administrator

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    Posted On:
    1/01/2006 10:16pm

    staff
     Style: JKD, BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by rexkwon
    Intuitive footwork , try that idea. It makes the whole thing useless.

    Here's a choice phrase from Shorthand Empty Hand "Heuristic blurred vision" ... how you're supposed to look at people in a fight.

    Really.

    I'm not going to comment here, wait for the article this week, children.
    Monkey Ninjas! Attack!
  3. rexkwon is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/01/2006 11:40pm


     Style: Thai boxing , JJ ,TKD

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    "Heuristic blurred vision " that an odd idea but the lack of footwork seems to be more of a critical error.
  4. fubar is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/02/2006 8:24am


     Style: ex-TKD 2 Muay Thai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by haughty
    Okay. You've won me over. Phil's Bullshido.
    I wonder if you guys convinced him , or he's convinced because Phil just banned him for acting like an asshole over at PB.

    ( yeah , I am one of "those guys " )
  5. unpossible is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/02/2006 10:43am


     Style: hackery

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by katana
    Where in the Pax Baculum FAQ are there comments from Phil Elmore taken out of context to make him look foolish? Also, Phil Elmore is trying to represent himself as an authority on the subject of self-defense. That makes it perfectly reasonable to question his credentials in the field and certainly doesn't make them "Ad Hominem" attacks.
    Right, but while it's evident that he hopes to assume a certain level of implied authority, he would be able to (and in fact has in the past) used the weakness of that argument to point out that he's never called himself an expert. He'll say that what gets printed on the book jacket cover of the one published compilation of articles that used him as the "And Now For A Word From The Inter-Net" guy had nothing to do with a decision by him.

    He won't take the next step and say "So ... given the subject matter of my blog-as-newletter, I should really attach a disclaimer stating that I am unqualified to dispense any kind of safety, self-defense and especially unarmed combat advice."
  6. katana is offline

    Capitalist Pig

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    Posted On:
    1/02/2006 2:11pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ, no-gi, boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by unpossible
    Right, but while it's evident that he hopes to assume a certain level of implied authority, he would be able to (and in fact has in the past) used the weakness of that argument to point out that he's never called himself an expert. He'll say that what gets printed on the book jacket cover of the one published compilation of articles that used him as the "And Now For A Word From The Inter-Net" guy had nothing to do with a decision by him.

    He won't take the next step and say "So ... given the subject matter of my blog-as-newletter, I should really attach a disclaimer stating that I am unqualified to dispense any kind of safety, self-defense and especially unarmed combat advice."
    I agree.

    I think that implied authority is enough to question his credentials even if he thinks it is unfair or whatever other excuse he offers. Elmore is clearly going the implied expert route the same way an actor who puts on a white medical jacket for a TV commercial wants you to think they're a doctor. For the record, Phil Elmore:

    1) Writes articles on self-defense and weapons.
    2) Sells subscriptions to these articles for profit and accepts advertising dollars for same.
    3) Sells branded merchandise for his operation.
    4) Has been interviewed as an authority in the field in the media.
    5) Has been published in a book dedicated to "warriorhood"
    6) Has published a self-defense book and is considering publishing a video of the techniques.

    As I've said before, if you were just reading the above in a vacuum and didn't know it was Phil Elmore you'd think the person it describes was an expert in the field of self-defense and weapons. Therefore it is perfectly acceptable to question his credentials as an authority without it being a personal attack.
  7. unpossible is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/02/2006 2:53pm


     Style: hackery

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by katana
    I agree.

    I think that implied authority is enough to question his credentials even if he thinks it is unfair or whatever other excuse he offers. Elmore is clearly going the implied expert route the same way an actor who puts on a white medical jacket for a TV commercial wants you to think they're a doctor. For the record, Phil Elmore:

    1) Writes articles on self-defense and weapons.
    2) Sells subscriptions to these articles for profit and accepts advertising dollars for same.
    3) Sells branded merchandise for his operation.
    4) Has been interviewed as an authority in the field in the media.
    5) Has been published in a book dedicated to "warriorhood"
    6) Has published a self-defense book and is considering publishing a video of the techniques.

    As I've said before, if you were just reading the above in a vacuum and didn't know it was Phil Elmore you'd think the person it describes was an expert in the field of self-defense and weapons. Therefore it is perfectly acceptable to question his credentials as an authority without it being a personal attack.
    I agree; however, my message to the members of this forum who aren't prepared to state the case as intelligently as you have is: focus on the substantial, glaring lack of evidence for the benefit of his training methods as well as the insanity of his views on sportfighting. For added spice, the implications of a fatass who thinks that sportfighting is "part of the problem."
  8. fubar is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/02/2006 3:30pm


     Style: ex-TKD 2 Muay Thai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Raise your hand if you learned to fight from a book.

    Now raise your hand if you've bought a book from a recognised "master" and it sucked. I have.

    While you're at it , raise your 3rd hand if you still think Black Belt/Inside Kung Fu or Penthouse can teach you anything you didn't already know ?

    Who cares if Phil Elmore sells advice regarding the basics of self defense to people who read about it ? If a dumbfuck gets his ass handed to him from info-without-sweat-equity from Phil , Gene Lebell , or Spiderman he deserves it.
  9. Phrost is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/02/2006 4:43pm

    Business Class Supporting Memberstaff
     Guy Who Pays the Bills and Gets the Death Threats Style: MMA (Retired)

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by fubar
    Raise your hand if you learned to fight from a book.

    Now raise your hand if you've bought a book from a recognised "master" and it sucked. I have.

    While you're at it , raise your 3rd hand if you still think Black Belt/Inside Kung Fu or Penthouse can teach you anything you didn't already know ?

    Who cares if Phil Elmore sells advice regarding the basics of self defense to people who read about it ? If a dumbfuck gets his ass handed to him from info-without-sweat-equity from Phil , Gene Lebell , or Spiderman he deserves it.
    That'd be great if this website didn't have a Martial Arts Consumer Protection mandate as a part of its charter.
  10. Dr._Tzun_Tzu is offline
    Dr._Tzun_Tzu's Avatar

    It's pretty beat up, but it is a complete copy....

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    Posted On:
    1/02/2006 7:02pm

    supporting member
     Style: EBMAS WT/ Latosa Concepts

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Fubar, what are you doing over here.......:-)

    "If anything is gained from this, it should be you both wanting to get better so you can make up for how crappy you are now." KidSpatula about the Sirc vs DTT Gong Sau Event
    Until the Bulltube is fixed:
    DTT vs Sirc

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