We need to grow up

[FighterJones]

What I typed pages worth of, WC lawyer just typed out in a few paragraphs.

[Jay Zarella]

As anybody who talks to me regularly online knows, I'm terrible at communicating.
I think alot of people have misunderstood me not getting my point.
What I'm trying to say is pretty much exactly what wing chun lawyer is trying to say.
Sure I spose bullshido isn't a place for everyone, but thats comment confused me.
I thought this place is supposed to reach out to the majority and try and inform them of the bullshit out there.
Omega, despite what you said, I'm not exactly talking about you, or asia because of one key detail.
Any person with any sense of humor should be able to tell you dudes are joking. You say WELCOME to bullshido after your initial flaming.
It may seem like I'm contradicting myself here but I'm not.
I'm not talking about someone telling me to shut my fucking mouth if I say something really stupid, I'm talking about some no name guy with 200 posts telling some newb to STFU and do something very obscene.
My point isn't just saying, make this a la la feel good place (although, I think alot of the non veteran or supporting members should be a little nicer at times, but that isn't the issue i'm trying to stress).
I'm saying when a newb comes on here, don't chase em away.
Lawdawg, thanks for putting up with me in that wrestling thread, But like you guys all told me and I'm not disagreeing. My wrestling coach sucks. He's great for conditioning, but for what we learn in technique is almost NONE. In fact this whole season we didn't wrestle with takedowns. It was all starting from the knees, we did learn one or two take downs, but its useless without real practise. But I'm clarifying here, I'm not a good wrestler and my wrestling team sucks. I'm just in it to get good at controlling my opponents body.
Hell. I learn more wrestling at ju jitsu than wrestling itself (Greco roman clinching and stuff)

I agree with much of what you said especially the part about the panties. That was pretty low imho and the people responsible should apologize. However you have to understand this site deals with phonies and trolls everyday and unfortunately the only way to dispatch them to the netherworld of Bullshido is to use photoshop visual aids and flaming. Seriously, even after issuing challenges they have no intentions of keeping. Many of these charlatans still continue on. A fine example of this is ashida kim, now he's making threats about covert action against certain people of this site? WTF The only way to combat this is to find the miserable prick , flame or photoshop him into purgatory. Im sorry some of your friends were exposed to immaturity, just realize the greater percentage of people who use this site are serious and usually act in good faith.

[Ronin]

As some of you know, I have, for some time, been trying to get certain "high ranking" MA to join the site, and I have been unsucessful for various reasons.
One of them is the "lack of maturity" and the "fact" that this site caters to "juveniles"...

Well, while at first these comments bothered me, I soon began to realise that, many people have issues with having their "untouchable" credintials questioned, some have issues with their bullshit being called just that.

Sure it would be nice to serve a heaping pile of dogshit and have everyone say "um yummy, what a cook !! "

but that ain't gonna happen here.

I have had my frustrated moments with this site and its tendancy to be, at times, childish, BUT I have more issues with people posting crap vidoes of themselves and NOT being called assholes and the every appropriate "you suck !! ", than i have issues with someone feeling that their corn flakes have been pissed on.

**** all you bleeding heart pussies !

You don't like your BS being called ?
STOP bullshiting !!
You don't like being put in your place? having your sorry ass performance on a vidoe called "more painful than an ethiopian circumsission ?
learn how to fight !

Cocks.

[WingChun Lawyer]

1) Noobs get flamed on any forum they are a noob to for one simple reason, they talk before they've spent any time reading the forums and getting a feel for the sites atmosphere.

2) It doesn't matter if they're a hormonally charged pre-pubescent 13 year old or a BJJ brown belt.

1) Maybe yes, maybe not. Still, this site has an actual purpose: this is not just any forum. Goals of the site first, regular forum stupidity second. If someone comes here without reading our old threads, but posts a well informed, well thought out post, or asks an honest question, that person deserves to be listened to. I don´t know what is your opinion on this, but I hope this site is BETTER than your average MA site. Higher standards.

2) Oh, yes it does. It matters a lot. We can afford to lose a hormonally charged idiot with no common sense who can´t be talked out of TKD since he has already been sacrificed to the gods of bullshido...but we CANNOT afford to lose a BJJ brown belt or the a MA newbie who is actually in doubt about the practices of his McDojo.

See, it seems you believe we are all at the same level of importance to the site here. Well, we are not. A BJJ brown belt is a valuable asset to this site, I, on the other hand, am not. I´ll repeat again, this site has a purpose.

[Matt Bernius]

I have mixed feelings on this entire thing.

You can't ever expect to run a board that appeals to everyone. And like many other posters have suggested, Bullshido isn't a comfortable home for a 14 year old girl*. As others have suggested the 'lightly' moderated/limited rule set nature of this board is part of its appeal (even for those of us who don't necessarily take advantage of it).

And for the most part, many newbies I've seen (myself included) haven't been flamed. The general rule of thumb is engage brain before fingers. Heck, I think I had to beg, around my fiftieth post, to be hazed by Omega and Asia (I was feeling left out).

All that said, I think WCL, Ikken, and others have brought up a good point that's been said before. The issue with Bullshido isn't folks like Asia, Omega, Yrkoon9, WCL, and others who can fight and/or have a realistic understanding of fighting and thier abilities. The problem tends to be, as Ikken and others have noted, the folks who think they know something and are typically more than happy to join in the hazing. From my observation, it's those folks who usually take it too far and create the problems that WLC has highlighted.

Is it possible to change that? Sure, cultures often self correct/alter. But without moding, some amount of pile on will always occur. That's just the nature of this beast and internet discussion in general. Is that a reason to increase the level of moding? Perhaps on another site, but not here as it runs counter to Bullshido's culture.

Personally, I'd love to see the signal to noise ratio change here (and at every board that I follow), but not at the cost of sacrificing the core nature of the board. There's always a price to pay. Some very qualified people become alienated. And that sucks. At the same time, some of the very qualified people from here wouldn't post on other MA forums because of those location's rules. And that's a loss for those forums. But in all cases it's a calculated loss to preserve a certain culture. You can't please everyone.

- Matt
(note that as always my words are my own view and don't represent any other person or organization)

* - perhaps part of the problem we face is that part of the locker room attitude that goes on around here is a little too welcoming for 14 year old boys who don’t have the experience to back up the trash that they talk.

[Wounded Ronin]

Nobody ever did it to me. On the other hand, I'm not totally stupid.

Same here. No one ever flamed me, and I don't flame n00bs. I think it only happens when someone asks what is percieved as a painful question.

That being said, I guess it would only help the site if there were less flaming of n00bs, in terms of maintaining larger readership.

[WingChun Lawyer]

The issue with Bullshido isn't folks like Asia, Omega, Yrkoon9, WCL, and others who can fight and/or have a realistic understanding of fighting and thier abilities.

I can fight...? You put Asia, Omega and a BJJ Purple Belt on the same sentence with me...!?

Excuse me, I must now look for a box of tissue paper and clean trousers. But thank you.

[dakotajudo]

A professional fighter and coach (Strong Machine), a BJJ brown belt, and an Olympian Judo athlete were almost lost because of our proverbial rudeness against newbies.

Sorry, the BJJ brown belt WAS actually lost.

On the other hand ...

First, I don't want put myself in the same category as those above, but I do have some credentionals as a scientist. In some of my early posts, I challenged the statements, related to science, of a member who shall remain nameless. This member then proceeded to give me the newbie treatment, and I played along for a while - but he kinda shut when I finally did post my credentials.

The point I'm trying to make is that the newbies who are the real deal, who have confidence in what they know, can give payback to the newbie hunters. Although, it seems guys who are good enough to become Olympic athletes are usually confident enough to not bash back; I would assume they have better things to do than play internet ego games.

Low signal-to-noise might drive them away, but I'm not sure the rudeness will.

And this site cannot also afford to alienate MA newbies who might be saved from Wing Chun and Ninjutsu with a bit of careful talk, at least at first.

This is probably more important.

Myself, I don't have a problem with making ignorant statements. Sometimes I speak what's on my mind just to see if what I believe is correct; I don't mind being proven wrong - but the proof part is important; flaming is not proof. So I try to provide evidence when I can.

I'd rather see people who make ill-thought comments corrected, not beaten down.

One thing to keep in mind - a lot of people who seem to be attracted to this board have a competitive mindset; you'll see that in the flavor of the posts. Sometimes things to get a bit antagonistic, but I've also seen the antagonists come to share a common view.

I look at this as randori - if I'm not trying to beat my training partner, how is he to get better? I'm not trying to destroy him, at least, not all the time, but I do sometimes have to challenge him, if I actually care about making him better.

[lawdog]

Lawdawg, thanks for putting up with me in that wrestling thread, But like you guys all told me and I'm not disagreeing. My wrestling coach sucks.

No problem.

While half the reason I come here is entertainment value, the other half is to hopefully share a little of the knowledge that I have acquired during the 20 years I spent getting my ass kicked by world class athletes. The way I see it, my pain, suffering and physical abuse should be put to good use. :BangHead:

By the way, your wrestling coach may very well be the worst coach in the history of wrestling!

[Matt Bernius]

I can fight...? You put Asia, Omega and a BJJ Purple Belt on the same sentence with me...!?

Excuse me, I must now look for a box of tissue paper and clean trousers. But thank you.

Whoa there cowboy (Brazilian Cowboy of course)... I don't think you're not quite ready to step into the ring with Omega or Asia just quite yet. But you have a pretty good handle on where you are and what realistic training is. Perhaps most importantly you know what you know and what you don't. That means you know when to talk and when to "shut-the-****-up-and-listen-to-the-voice-of-experience" (see I can swear when I want to). And that's what's needed to keep good dialog going here.

Being able to verbally (or textually throw down is good), but being able to recognize when people aren't talking out of their asses is even more important. And also recongizing the people who are talking out of said orafice. You do all of that well and with a lot of class!

- Matt