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  1. pox is offline

    Registered Member

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    Jan 2005
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    240

    Posted On:
    8/16/2005 10:15am


     Style: Kenpo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by PO9
    I still don't see all this insulting you noobs keep talking about.
    I think it was a lot more common six months to a year ago.
    Back then it seemed that every post made by a newbie, regardless of merit, was suffixed by a side splitting 'STFU NOOB!'
  2. PO9 is offline

    10th level Superlesson Grandmaster

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    Posted On:
    8/16/2005 10:15am


     Style: Currently Inactive

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Shouldn't they though?
    Who, for Pete’s sake! Is opposing science? In fact, we want MORE science by CRITICALLY ANALIZING the evidence-Connie Morris, Kansas State BOE (bolding and underlining part of original quote, red is my emphasis)


    As long as you try to treat your subjective experiences as if they were objective experiences, you will continue to be confounded by people who disagree with you.-some guy on an internet messageboard
  3. Sophist is offline
    Sophist's Avatar

    Senior Member

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    Edinburgh
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    Posted On:
    8/16/2005 10:27am


     Style: Judo, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    There seems to be a bit of a conflict between the supposed site goal of weaning people away from the bullshit in martial arts and forum members' kneejerk misanthropy every time someone new poisons the air with stupid. Maybe the mission should change to only weaning smart people off bullshit, or maybe we should be nicer to people who type with their nose. We could maybe cut down on the harsh welcome a little anyway until convincing proof of mental incapability is obtained, so we don't lose anyone we'd regret losing.

    That said, the forum's never going to become squeaky-clean all-signal-no-noise without industrial-strength censorship, and that would be against everything Bullshido stands for. Any idiot can stop by and troll and be heard; but that saves us from the purgatory of having a board full of acceptable opinions politely phrased and nothing else. I don't know that changing this would be a good idea, but I can see how the apparent hostility chases away more timid posters.

    We could do with more articles perhaps, prominently placed on the homepage so new visitors run into them first instead of the forum. I'm not sure how well these would accomplish the supposed site goal, as there are only so many ways to explain to people that hard sparring matters and people are excellent at finding excuses to deflect criticism from applying to their favourite art. Still, I suppose they could be padded out with articles deconstructing various flavours of bullshido and articles on physical training or techniques, and it might reach and convince some people who would otherwise find the forum alone too offensive.
  4. GarageJudokaSS is offline

    U.S. Army

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    Within view of the flagpole...
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    299

    Posted On:
    8/16/2005 11:07am


     Style: BJJ, Kickboxing, Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    So, this whole thread is because we scared away Jones' girlfriend?

    What happened to the "man up" agenda?

    Bros before hos, Jones.... Bros before hos...

    On a serious note, I think there'd be little to nothing to this entire thread if the "panties incident" wasn't being so redundantly referenced. If there aren't more plentiful examples to be found, then isn't this really rather pointless? If one instance of someone coming on with little hippie smilies and nonsense getting accused of being a troll is enough to warrant this, is it really the clowns that need to grow up, or the regular posters?

    Let it go. Trying to turn a bitchfest about underage panties into a vehicle for forum reform makes about as much sense as studying Wing Chun.

    I'm kidding!! I'm kidding!!
  5. JKDChick is offline
    JKDChick's Avatar

    Senior Administrator

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    Posted On:
    8/16/2005 11:14am

    staff
     Style: JKD, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    By the way, I support the "Stop Flaming the Newbies" campaign.
    Monkey Ninjas! Attack!
  6. Quikfeet509 is offline

    Acupuncturist / Anesthesia Student

    Join Date
    Oct 2004
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    Kansas City - the mecca of civilization
    Posts
    1,622

    Posted On:
    8/16/2005 11:27am


     Style: Mostly weights now...

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by dakotajudo
    This was what I was trying to say; talking about teaching evolution to fundamenalists.

    You don't. You teach the important ideas of biology. Give them accept what you teach, the basics that don't directly challenge their personally held beliefs. Let them accumulate what you have to say; then and some point, say to them - "By the way, that other stuff - that's evolution".

    They should be able to see a disconnect between what they've accepted from you, and what they've previously believed. Then they may be open to change.

    But if you go at it directly, they will put up defenses and ignore all that follows.

    You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to dakotajudo again.





    Sometimes it is necessary to use direct, harsh confrontation. But most times, people use this approach because it makes them feel good about themselves. "There is nothing better then pointing out the inadequacies of others." But then the discussion is no longer about the truth; it is about being "right" and feeling good about it.


    One of the other problems is the unwillingness of some members to come clean about their experience and education level.
  7. MEGA JESUS-SAMA is offline
    MEGA JESUS-SAMA's Avatar

    **** you math class

    Join Date
    Jan 2005
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    Pirate Island
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    Posted On:
    8/16/2005 11:28am

    supporting member
     Style: TKD, Ballet, Archery

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    By the way, I support the "Stop Flaming the Newbies" campaign.
    We can still do the watermelon thing right? Definitely my favorite part of being new!
  8. FighterJones is offline
    FighterJones's Avatar

    Registered User

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    Jun 2004
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    Posted On:
    8/16/2005 11:29am


     Style: LARPing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    As anybody who talks to me regularly online knows, I'm terrible at communicating.
    I think alot of people have misunderstood me not getting my point.
    What I'm trying to say is pretty much exactly what wing chun lawyer is trying to say.
    Sure I spose bullshido isn't a place for everyone, but thats comment confused me.
    I thought this place is supposed to reach out to the majority and try and inform them of the bullshit out there.
    Omega, despite what you said, I'm not exactly talking about you, or asia because of one key detail.
    Any person with any sense of humor should be able to tell you dudes are joking. You say WELCOME to bullshido after your initial flaming.
    It may seem like I'm contradicting myself here but I'm not.
    I'm not talking about someone telling me to shut my fucking mouth if I say something really stupid, I'm talking about some no name guy with 200 posts telling some newb to STFU and do something very obscene.
    My point isn't just saying, make this a la la feel good place (although, I think alot of the non veteran or supporting members should be a little nicer at times, but that isn't the issue i'm trying to stress).
    I'm saying when a newb comes on here, don't chase em away.
    Lawdawg, thanks for putting up with me in that wrestling thread, But like you guys all told me and I'm not disagreeing. My wrestling coach sucks. He's great for conditioning, but for what we learn in technique is almost NONE. In fact this whole season we didn't wrestle with takedowns. It was all starting from the referees position, we did learn one or two take downs, but its useless without real practise. But I'm clarifying here, I'm not a good wrestler and my wrestling team sucks. I'm just in it to get good at controlling my opponents body.
    Hell. I learn more wrestling at ju jitsu than wrestling itself (Greco roman clinching and stuff)
  9. WingChun Lawyer is offline
    WingChun Lawyer's Avatar

    Modesty forbids more.

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    Dec 2003
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    São Paulo, Brazil
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    5,426

    Posted On:
    8/16/2005 11:34am

    supporting member
     Style: Muay Thai, BJJ newbie.

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by GarageJudokaSS
    If there aren't more plentiful examples to be found, then isn't this really rather pointless?
    A professional fighter and coach (Strong Machine), a BJJ brown belt, and an Olympian Judo athlete were almost lost because of our proverbial rudeness against newbies.

    Sorry, the BJJ brown belt WAS actually lost.

    So no, this discussion is not pointless at all. I am not Phrost, but I would say this site cannot afford to lose qualified people such as those. And this site cannot also afford to alienate MA newbies who might be saved from Wing Chun and Ninjutsu with a bit of careful talk, at least at first.

    I am not telling anyone to shut up, and I do not think this place should be moderated MAP style. But I believe we could really improve this place if there was an effort to avoid attacking newbies, at least until those newbies have grown used to this site´s style.
    That civilisation may not sink,
    Its great battle lost,
    Quiet the dog, tether the pony
    To a distant post;
    Our master Caesar is in the tent
    Where the maps are spread,
    His eyes fixed upon nothing,
    A hand under his head.


    - W.B. Yeats
  10. PO9 is offline

    10th level Superlesson Grandmaster

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    Jul 2004
    Location
    NC
    Posts
    978

    Posted On:
    8/16/2005 11:38am


     Style: Currently Inactive

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Noobs get flamed on any forum they are a noob to for one simple reason, they talk before they've spent any time reading the forums and getting a feel for the sites atmosphere. It doesn't matter if they're a hormonally charged pre-pubescent 13 year old or a BJJ brown belt.
    Who, for Pete’s sake! Is opposing science? In fact, we want MORE science by CRITICALLY ANALIZING the evidence-Connie Morris, Kansas State BOE (bolding and underlining part of original quote, red is my emphasis)


    As long as you try to treat your subjective experiences as if they were objective experiences, you will continue to be confounded by people who disagree with you.-some guy on an internet messageboard
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