BoardHitBack, You make a good point. Sorry for calling you "lightweight" as that was my 'noobiness" with using the forum seeing what the persons name was.
Yes, any Martial arts training under a qualified teacher, not only Master Ochiai, makes you a better person, but it is a lifetime effort. I think you inferred that I said I was the best person I could be and above everyone else due to studying under Master Ochiai. That is not what I meant.
Correct, I was saying it was KK's opinion the black belt was weak. I also cannot believe he would be kicked out for taking a good stance and stopping the sweep from taking his leg out. I hope the brown belt did it with control and did not do a full sweep on a new student. What KK would be kicked out for is for making some wise ass comment or use of his profanity that he is so good at when the test of his stance was done and he was still standing.
Based on interviews I am seen, he simply does not want to give out the name of the temple. I am sure he has good reasons for that. Even if I knew the name I would not make it public on this forum so people could "check up on him" There is plenty of information out there on Master Ochiai if you do the research and you can form your own opinion. You may be right that I simply can't answer the question, but I have only been training for 12 years. There are students with 30 and 40 years of training that hav a lot more information than me. I have heard many stories of Washin Ryu students successfully defending themselves on the streets. We have a lot of very strong blackbelts. But I cannot give specific examples against other styles. Most likely the attacks were from punks on the streets. If two martial artists get in a real fight, one of them should be ashamed of themselves for starting a fight. Martial artist should be non violent and only act in self defense.
I still believe there is no way to change KK's mind instantly, no matter what I tel him. So I did not run away from him. I simply cannot think of anything to tell him that would change his mind and it is not worth my time and energy to try.
I will try to discuss it with anyone else that is more open minded like yourself. Are you looking for effectiveness in a tournament situation or actual combat in the streets?
He did, the same way good XMAers impress me. Its looks nice. But It didn't fulfill my requiring of learning to fight.
Originally Posted by Steveni
Aesopian put it the best. "Of course their is more to Martial Arts then just fighting, but you can't skip learning to fight and get into the pseudo-spirtual crap."
Originally Posted by Steveni
Originally Posted by BoardHitBack
Steven. Read this quote VERY careful. I expirenced the crapitude of Washin Ryu. I routinuely sparred with the students. I say they sucks. I have never seen Washin Ryu used successfully against any reputable style. Hell, my friend Peter imed me yesterday laughing how he sparred the entire Washin Ryu club (one at a time) with a candy bar is his hand, and whipped them. And he is an admitted overweight TKDer.
Do me a favor, Go to Binghamton University BJJ club http://www.sitewarp.com/bjj/. East Gym, Wrestling Room. And ask for Mike. Spar with him. Then I'll ask him, what he thought and I'll post it. What do you think?
"Hell, my friend Peter imed me yesterday laughing how he sparred the entire Washin Ryu club (one at a time) with a candy bar is his hand, and whipped them"
I think that is a bunch of BS. First of all, who did he spar? The BU students that are taking the college class? If so, that is not a true test of Hidy Ochiai's students. Those people are probably taking the class once a week and not practicing between classes and have never received direct instruction from Master Ochiai. Did he spar the blackbelt running the class? I will check with the person who runs the club to verify your story.
I have a better idea, have Peter come to Hidy Ochiai's Karate in Vestal and spar some of his students there. Many people have tried and they don't even do well against our blue belts and don't even get up to our blackbelts. I have nothing to prove to anyone, but it sounds like you do. Nothing good ever comes out of comparing different styles, but what examples do you have of other styles being used successfully against another style.
Remember, as BHB pointed out, this thread was supposed to be about Hidy Ochiai's history, not how well students in a college campus course can spar someone from a different sytle.
If you think our style sucks, you are entitled to your opinion and I guess I can respect it. It must be cool to learn how to be a Ninja.
There are two Washin Ryu Blackbelts right at the University. One is the leader of the club and the other is the leader of a college gym course in karate.
They are about equal to me in sparring, so maybe they will agree to spar with Mike. However, there is no way to know what really happened and you can post whatever you feel like. There would have to be an unbiased third party.
I actually covered the club class one weekend and it was full of whitebelts, so your friend beating a bunch of noobies in karate with a candy bar in his hand, even if it is true, does not impress me!!
It sounds like you have found a style that fits you. Let others find their style without insulting them.
As the saying goes, "Can't we all just get along?" :-)
This was at the Washin Ryu Club , not the gym class. This also included the president of the club.
hey, its Peter
Sorry guys, but this HAS to be done.
Some of my best friends are training Washin Ryu in Binghamton University, and the headquarters (i assume) in Binghamton New York. They go directly to the dojo more then 3 times a week to train.
Now, im not saying im a martial artist, or a professional fighter....... i trained tae kwon do in junior and high school and i was pretty good, got my black belt before college, then came to college concentrated on studying (beer and pizza economics 101) and gained weight and just got out of it. my friends would always go "wow, for a fat kid your flexable!, come with us to Washin Ryu!" Me, thinking, that i could possibly get back into it, went, OK! Lets go!
Big mistake. They SUCKED. I mean, i am currently 50 lbs heavier then i like. I havent trained since freshman year. I dont keep up at all! And i whip the **** out of them every time. I mean, sure im a black belt in TKD, but i havent trained and i dont even try when i spar against the LEADERS of the club here. You can stand still and they cant hit you. I even sparred the head assistant of the style, Mr. Bowen, and i have to say he screamed "McDojo" in what he did.
I was sparring him and i took a step back for a spinning back kick, and he turns around too. Not wanting to hurt him, or disrespect him, i stop. (shouldnt have). He literally stands around 5-10 seconds, with his backfist ready, and just stands there. i see it coiled in, so i go to myself "Oh, he was expecting that" and i very nicely redo my fighting stance and go straight at it so he doesnt feel like he fucked up. It was a big brain **** to me, but i didnt want to disrespect the first friends i made in college, so i did it and i didnt want to disrespect this school i was visiting (being the first martial art other then TKD i ever tried, ive learned since respect is earned not given). He THEN had the audacity to go "HA! i caught you!" and pointed his finger at me. IRRITATING. the guy didnt even SHOW UP to the OWN CLUB HE TAUGHT FOR OCHAI UNTIL BINGHAMTON UNIVERSITY STARTED PAYING HIM. The NON FOR PROFIT UNIVERSITY CLUB HAD TO PAY THE GUY TO EVEN SHOW UP TO THE CLUB. NO OTHER CLUB ON CAMPUS PAYS ITS INSTRUCTORS. They claim to be "for the community" and for the students. The students, a green belt or some **** like that, had to teach the club because the instructor didnt show without money. OOPS. This guy had been training Washin Ryu for over 30 years, and he doesnt even repay his respects to the style by teaching a free fucking class once a week? His younger image is even in textbook about the style, and hes well respected everywhere supposedly.
For the community my ass, its a fucking buisness.
I mean, i never HEARD of Washin Ryu before in my life,and no one i know in NYC has either and supposedly every martial artist is the world respects them by their standards...... my Tae Kwon Do master had a fucking heart attack after he saw the travesty that Washin Ryu and college did to my fighting LOL, i tried using a Washin Ryu stance in sparing, and i literary had my tkd master pick up an eskrima stick from across the room, throw it at me, and make me 100 push ups for doing such a stupid ass thing. he was practically in tears because of Washin Ryu mcdojo fighting that i picked up because of the influence of my friends that went there. I actually almost got used to "stopping from hitting after one hit" because thats their style. In sparring, they literally stop you with the first contact you make.
"JUST LIKE REAL LIFE!"....... oops again. Maybe im used to different because TKD has combinations and in the school i trained in you keep hitting until someone falls or time runs out, and you need full gear to actually stay alive in that.
I reinstate this AGAIN. Some of the guys that are in the club are incredible, great, remarkable friends of mine. They are good people, who honestly i would wish the best of martial arts training on to defend themselves and their loved ones if the time came. But they definitely are NOT getting it in Washin Ryu. and i do have more examples. Ive meet with Kazekage, just throwing around some techniques and showing each other stuff we didnt know, and the washin ryu guys did too, so we both have experience with these guys. I was an actual member of the club in Binghamton universty, and after going there for literally a year, i saw the instructor 3 times. This club and style just ring too loudly of money to me. I have trained at least once with every club on campus,and even the most extremist clubs that hit you with bokken and make you do insane things i respect, because they train you for the sake of training you. Even all of Kazekages arguements with the sword fighters on Bing campus i side with the sword fighters, and we both happily agree to disagree, but Washin Ryu is being viewed by two people from very different martial art backgrounds as something very bad is something that cannot be ignored.
And YES! I brought candy for the clubs OWN candy drive, $3 dollars worth, and i DID spar a Purple belt (or brown) who is the VICE PRESIDENT of the club on campus while eating it, jokingly, and both the vice president and president (whom i am not on speaking terms with) of the club openly admit i am much better then them. i have been ASKED by the vice president to come to the club to give him more of a challenge to grow, since he is a close friend of mine. I still refuse to go. i realize now that my arguing this style might cost me a friendship, but it value truth and i know that i would be able to better help my friend grow with alternative training. i also hope you "seasoned veterans" of the style do not hold anything i say or do against my friends because they are, in my opinion foolishly, very strong beleivers in "washin ryu"...
ps..... ask them about the "club exchange" they had to do with the Dance Dance Revolution club just to get enough people going to the club to keep it offically a club.
DDR + Washin Ryu = Incredible martial arts skills.
Wow, if we considered this sparring, I would have to award you an ippon!
(I am not being sarcastic etiher) I respect your opinion and I respect TKD.
It seems that this has evolved into a criticism of Mr. Bowen and the Washin Ryu Club. Again, I would rather see people actually take class from Master Ochiai and then give an opinion on Washin Ryu. But I can understand where you are coming from. His students do represent him and some do a better job than others.
I believe Mr. Bowen was excellent at sparring in his younger days and I think he won some National championships, but I could be wrong.
Master Ochiai teaches us kata, self defense against various attacks(choke, grab, punch, kick, push, etc) and point sparring. In self defense we learn how to block, avoid or escape and finish the opponent using sweeps, submissions and finishing attacks to the temple or other pressure points using kicks, punches, backfists, etc.
However, sparring is all non contact point sparring meant for tournament use which is simply a game, somewhat of a show and not real kumite. Master Ochiai points that out to us constantly. But that is what is used at karate tournaments.
It is a 3 point match and you stop after each 1/2 point or full point to award it.
The idea behind the full point is that IF it was executed correctly, one punch is all you need to stop your opponent. That is probably not easy for most people to actualize.
Damn, I guess MMA fightes, K-1 Fighters and Western Boxers don't do it right. I wish Ochiai would teach them the true way.
Originally Posted by Steveni