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  1. Judah Maccabee is offline
    Judah Maccabee's Avatar

    Bullshido Wikipedia Delegate

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    Sep 2004
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    Chicago
    Posts
    5,326

    Posted On:
    8/02/2005 4:23pm

    supporting memberhall of fameBullshido Newbie
     Style: Krav / (Kick)Boxing / BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I was able to land kimura's from within people's guards in straight BJJ. They were also n00bs, and the instructor told me to not do that, because it would never work against someone who even heard of the words "hip control."
  2. Yrkoon9 is offline
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    Brock Sampson

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    Jun 2004
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    Posted On:
    8/02/2005 7:02pm

    supporting member
     Style: 5.56

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'm not going to get into the whole coulda/woulda/shoulda arguement. There are too many variables that center around skill level.

    What I will say that it is has been MY experience that Kimuras are good for big guys. Not so good for little guys. That is a large generalization. I realize that. Because I know little guys who can get a great angle for Kimuras and finish them.

    The reason I believe Kimuras to be good for the big guys is that the effect of the technique is greatly amplified by strength. Let me explain further. A collar choke isn't going to be that much more effective if you outweigh your opponent by 50lbs. Neither is a footlock. But a Kimura really depends on some serious crank force. Of course it helps to get the right leverage and a good angle. But lets be real here, if your opponent outweighs you by 50lbs he can probably keep his arm tucked in without having to grab a belt. Thier shoulder/chest/back strength will allow them to resist very effectively. Yes yes yes, I know that helps in a lot of applications. And I am certainly not saying that it is unique to the Kimura. I am simply saying that it is my experience that the strength factor is amplified greatly in the Kimura. Therefore it is a low probability submission for the little guys, and better for the big guys.

    Now on to what *I* do when I can't finish a Kimura; I simply change to an underhook on that side and go for sweeps. No need to keep banging my head against a wall. Now when I go for the sweep if he posts out....hmmmm....time to revaluate. Because if he is posted, his arm is away from his body and in a better position for me to get a kimura. Just a thought.
  3. Strong Machine is offline

    Professional Fighter/Instructor

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    Jan 2004
    Location
    Massachusetts
    Posts
    829

    Posted On:
    8/02/2005 10:45pm

    supporting member
     Style: Pro-Wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    To add to what feedback said about changing direction.
    I have you in my guard and have your left arm kimurad and you got your belt in front of your own hip.I reverse by suddenly going with your pressure by pulling your hand toward the mat.Then I pull your hand toward my face THEN when your grip is broken and your hand is completely clear of your hip/belt I go back to moving your hand toward the ceiling.

    Another trick not yet mentioned is to switch to a bicep crush.But this doesn't work that great wearing gi's.
  4. FighterJones is offline
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    Registered User

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    Jun 2004
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    Posted On:
    8/02/2005 11:26pm


     Style: LARPing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    yeah, while i love the kimura from the gaurd, i gotta say the reverse figurefour/keylock is better for smaller guys if you can set it up, i mean, isn't it?
    Considering you can let gravity do most of the work for ya.
    I may be wrong, I'm not gonna pose as a good grappler, the two dudes above me know their **** tho.
  5. MadeOfOlives is offline

    Registered Member

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    Feb 2003
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    290

    Posted On:
    8/04/2005 8:19am


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Nightstrike- unless I'm mistaken, wouldn't the reverse figure 4 lock be the kimura? If the normal key lock/figure four lock is the key lock, in which you have their arm facing as if your opponent were flexing their bicep while you pull their arm down and then lever their elbow up...

    then the reverse would be the kimura, in which their elbow is facing down, then their arm is levered up towards their head.

    Unless you are talking about something else entirely.
  6. KhorneliusPraxx

    Guest

    Posted On:
    8/04/2005 9:15am


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by MadeOfOlives
    then the reverse would be the kimura, in which their elbow is facing down, then their arm is levered up towards their head.
    Don't you have that backwards.
    Kimura - forearm pointing down to hip (inverted americana)

    Americana - forearm pointing up to head (I guess this is the keylock in wrestling?)
    Last edited by KhorneliusPraxx; 8/04/2005 9:55am at .
  7. KhorneliusPraxx

    Guest

    Posted On:
    8/04/2005 9:21am


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by MadeOfOlives
    Nightstrike- unless I'm mistaken, wouldn't the reverse figure 4 lock be the kimura? If the normal key lock/figure four lock is the key lock, in which you have their arm facing as if your opponent were flexing their bicep while you pull their arm down and then lever their elbow up...
    then the reverse would be the kimura, in which their elbow is facing down, then their arm is levered up towards their head.
    Upon rereading, I understand now. I was confused by "elbow facing down." You meant elbow bent downward right? Please forgive my confusion, I beg you. :eusa_pray
  8. MadeOfOlives is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Posts
    290

    Posted On:
    8/04/2005 9:23am


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    No, my prose is flawless. Flawless!
  9. TacoFu is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    66

    Posted On:
    8/04/2005 9:33pm


     Style: Taco Do

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Strong people can power out of it early on in locking the kimura. However, once you have position you should be able to finish. I would say you probably aren't hipping out enough. Hip out and throw the same side leg up high under his armpit. Then your finish of the kimura is powered by a torso twist and leaning back, not arm power. Twist the wrist back with your outside arm, at the same time turning torso and leaning back, squeezing your inner arm back to try and put his elbow under your armpit.

    If that sounds too confusing in the detail of it, just hip out more and finish with torso strength against arm strength.

    If a strong guy can prevent you from hipping out, therein lies the trouble.
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