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  1. KhorneliusPraxx

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    Posted On:
    8/01/2005 1:07pm


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    garbanzobean - a witness to my lack of sprawl (a.k.a. how I got dumped on my ass in the blink of an eye).
  2. JKDChick is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/01/2005 1:12pm

    staff
     Style: JKD, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I once described the hip throw to a bunch of ... okay, they were gamers ... as "that throw everyone thinks they can do."

    It's freaking hard to do, especially if the guy knows even a little bit about how to counter them.
    Monkey Ninjas! Attack!
  3. Te No Kage! is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/01/2005 1:42pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ/Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by JKDChick
    I once described the hip throw to a bunch of ... okay, they were gamers ... as "that throw everyone thinks they can do."

    It's freaking hard to do, especially if the guy knows even a little bit about how to counter them.
    very true, we're all sashiro sugata in our minds but when rubber hits pavement, it's a whole nuther story

    the easier the throw, the harder it is to pull off because everybody knows it, which is why you probably don't see a whole lot of hip throws at Olympic level, and when you do, it's a big deal

    *in my limited experience* as far as wrestlers are concerned or those that like to bend over when grappling, they do make it a lot more difficult to hip throw because they have their hips too far back to get too, BUT learn some backward sacrifice throws and that should take care of it, usually if someone is bending over on me, I'll just do a sumi gaeshi or tomoe nage or uki waza, all three of these are very easy on people that already have "their nose over their toes", after a few of those they should start standing back up a little bit

    all of this is why my judo instructor teaches us to be more upright and less bent over like a wrestler, but that's a different discussion
    "Labor is prior to, and independent of, capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration." -A. Lincoln

    Vote your conscience.... Vote Libertarian!
  4. Scrapper is offline
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    Fear and bullets.

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    Posted On:
    8/01/2005 2:18pm

    staff
     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    You've gotta stop doing 'em.

    Sounds like people know they are coming. Do some other throws for a while, maybe shoot a single leg. Or my personal favorite, when they hip-check and slide out of your hip throw, hit them with sukui nage.

    Otherwise, the rest of the advice on this thread was dead on. More unbalancing, attack with the hip, attack with commitment, and speed it up.
    And lo, Kano looked down upon the field and saw the multitudes. Amongst them were the disciples of Uesheba who were greatly vexed at his sayings. And Kano spake: "Do not be concerned with the mote in thy neighbor's eye, when verily thou hast a massive stick in thine ass".

    --Scrolls of Bujutsu: Chapter 5 vs 10-14.
  5. Meex is offline
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    Loving Father

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    Posted On:
    8/01/2005 2:21pm

    supporting member
     Style: Tao Ga

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Fighter Jones:
    You've got lots of great, and worthwhile advice here.
    Take it all in.
    Really read what is written, so you understand the advice.
    Read it again.
    Go practice. . .one thing at a time.

    One of the basic drills I will always go back to,
    is practicing entering like 15-20 times, then
    throwing the partner.

    You can work this drill until the opponent is
    resisting you fully, and by proper technique,
    still be able to pull off the throw at least 50%
    of the time.

    As you practice entering, start to recognize if
    and when the opponent/partner IS off-balanced.
    Soon, you will "feel" when you can, and cannot
    execute a particular throw, and just go on to another.

    As you constantly enter, and step out, you should keep
    working to off-balance the opponent/partner. Do not
    let go, and do not stop moving them around trying to
    gain the advantage until after the throw attempt.

    Because these guys are heavier than you, your technique
    MUST be good. Muscling it will get you nowhere. this is a
    very good thing. You should get rid of your bad habits soon.

    Good Luck.

    `~/
    Last edited by Meex; 8/01/2005 2:25pm at .
  6. Tourettes is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/01/2005 2:31pm


     Style: judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Te No Kage!
    very true, we're all sashiro sugata in our minds but when rubber hits pavement, it's a whole nuther story

    the easier the throw, the harder it is to pull off because everybody knows it, which is why you probably don't see a whole lot of hip throws at Olympic level, and when you do, it's a big deal

    *in my limited experience* as far as wrestlers are concerned or those that like to bend over when grappling, they do make it a lot more difficult to hip throw because they have their hips too far back to get too, BUT learn some backward sacrifice throws and that should take care of it, usually if someone is bending over on me, I'll just do a sumi gaeshi or tomoe nage or uki waza, all three of these are very easy on people that already have "their nose over their toes", after a few of those they should start standing back up a little bit

    all of this is why my judo instructor teaches us to be more upright and less bent over like a wrestler, but that's a different discussion
    When you're opponent is bent over, o soto gari to the side or uchimata also work well.

    So to get back to the original post:

    You're trying to throw guys 200 pounds+(240-250) to your 170, you don't have much training(at least it sounds that way) and you say you know nine hip throws...

    You're working on too much and chances you don't know one of those nine throws that well. Don't know how long you've been learning throws or from whom, but try concentrating on one throw for the next 6 months(maybe less, depends on how diligent you are) - out of that list, o goshi would probably be a good one for you. Plus, you need to get feedback from a competent instructor. Like lawdog said, learning throws are all about repetition and a lot go into them - studying o goshi will help you get basic hip placement, posture, pull(kuzushi) and committment. A good instructor will correct out the bad habits and hopefully keep you from fucking yourself or your uke up. It's also one of the slowest throws so if you can pull it off, future hip throws will be much easier. You probably will never use o goshi in randori in judo, but maybe for your other stuff it'll work fine.

    If you really want to throw big guys, work on your foot sweeps like de ashi harai and one of your other attacks like ko soto gari, ko uchi or o uchi gari and start working out at a judo dojo with big guys. You'll learn a lot from just attacking the legs(your pull has to be well coordinated with your attacks) and it's effective too.

    I wouldn't think or worry about combos until you have the basics down - spazzing from one formless throw to another isn't going to help you at all, it just makes you a bigger spaz.
  7. sui generis is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/01/2005 2:35pm


     Style: PersonalDefenseReadiness

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by FighterJones
    So as I understand it guys, abridged what you are trying to tell me is, set my hip throws up with other throws, get in tight, and do everything in one solid motion?
    Exactly ... it will take a lot of time and work, but if you do the described things, you will have improved greatly in your hip-throws ... oh ... and dont forget your kuzushi/balance breaking :icon_cool .

    Since you desire to use hip-throws, maybe one or two little things :

    - be prepared to "work" your way into these throws [read : proper set-ups], especially if your partners are a lot bigger than you, you cant simply muscle your way through, pick em up and throw em ... but you already know that :5camoufla

    - experiment a bit with your grips - you might find ceratain grips more advantageous for these throws in relation to your body-type than others

    - one throw which might be worth a closer look could be Tsuri-Goshi http://judoinfo.com/images/animation...tsurigoshi.htm - maybe give it a try :icon_cool
  8. Shams is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/01/2005 4:03pm


     Style: Empty-Hand Style

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    It really is very hard to hip throw a guy who keeps his legs bent and is big boned .I can never hip throw this one guy cause his hard knees just digs into my ass whenevery I try to.BUt whenever Hes standing straight its no problem at all.
  9. _Mick_ is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/01/2005 6:59pm


     Style: Hapkido

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    1) as stated before try hari goshi. most people cant step around you if your leg is up.
    2) if your right foot is forward, keep your right foot planted, and turn counter clockwise. if you move your front foot they will see it coming more easily.
    3) to set up the throw, push hard with your upper body, when they push back, pull them into the throw.
    4) don't sit back on your opponent. if you do this they can pick you up and throw you on your back.

    that is all.
  10. FighterJones is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/01/2005 7:43pm


     Style: LARPing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Thanks for all your help guys, I appreciate and I WILL take all of this to heart.
    My instructor is fully competetant, but like I said, this august i didn't have ju jitsu so i got rusty, the throws we mainly concentrate on are simple ones like variants of the double leg, we concentrate on osotogari and such.
    Yeah I pretty much show people i'm gonna use em cause I telegraph badly. BTW, i checked today with my friends the weight of the two dudes i was talkin about, 220, and 260.
    But thanks for your advice, I appreciate it, if there is anything else (which i doubt, you guys have covered it greatly) please share.
    BTW, could some of you guys pretty please get indepth in footwork? Thats what I'm rusty at it seems, but just to clarify, ogoshi was the first hip throw i learned if i recall properly.
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