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  1. Doctor Shaft is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/27/2005 12:13pm


     Style: TSD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    but my experience as a former evangelical tells me that these people are the type that need to find some Biblical reference in EVERYTHING they do. I've seen it before:
    Point taken. I think there is a serious problem with that, and as person who is still "evangelical" I've always had the aversion to the name calling tag apparrel that "christians" often throw into their lives as a way of definitively separating themselves, which I think is both counter-productive and also not supported, at least Biblically.

    I think it's alright to create certain kinds of social groups, and be willing to announce your ideology if put to task. But to paint the signs and make big neon lights about it is... well, maybe it's just an American thing. We're so proud, we'll ruffle our feathers at everyone.

    Maybe I'm just being offensive in my next comment, but I'll take a stab and say that I question the naming convention because you don't find other "forms" of karate out there, like "Metrosexual Karate" or "Green Party Tang Soo Do."
  2. Mawashi Geri is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/27/2005 12:19pm


     Style: Shotokan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Year Zero Said
    my experience as a former evangelical tells me that these people are the type that need to find some Biblical reference in EVERYTHING they do. I've seen it before:

    Christian dating, Christian Music, Christian debt consolidation, Christian Auto Repair, Christian fly-fishing.
    Well...instead of all this guess-work, let me simply tell you the what and why for us.
    I have been in quite a few different kinds of dojos and I respect the approach they have spiritually. So when they require (or expect) that I do things "their way" and that way includes alot of random bits and pieces or religious and spiritual practices that I don't want to engage in, I leave. There is no good reason for me to train at a CERTAIN dojo, so I just thank them for the training they took the time to give me and I leave.

    I am a Christian. I feel as though you know no more about me than you did before I said that because Christianity is so porly represented out there. It seems especially true that rarely does any real thought or plausable idea come out of Christianity these days. Nevertheless, there is a true core to Chrsitianity and because it is rarely seriously evaluated by the outsider, it is hardly even known to exist.

    So I practice karate as a Christian, and inevitably, I teach it as a Christian. The "Christian Karate" is a deliberate open acknowledgment of that. We welcome anyone who will train with us. We teach traditional shotokan karate (with some variances, as is true everywhere). We train hard and love the art. But we don't want to dis-illusion anyone as to the Spiritual premises on which we train....they are NOT eastern as you might expect in a dojo.

    I've never heard of Christian Fly-fishing and Christian debt consolidation is just as much junk-mail to me as it is to you.

    I have a feeling that you all would be calling "Bullshido" all the louder and more insistently if you found a Christian school that tried to hide it by being Christian but being too fearful to openly say so.
  3. sidran is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/27/2005 12:26pm


     Style: Kung fu, Jiu-jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Shaft
    Point taken. I think there is a serious problem with that, and as person who is still "evangelical" I've always had the aversion to the name calling tag apparrel that "christians" often throw into their lives as a way of definitively separating themselves, which I think is both counter-productive and also not supported, at least Biblically.

    I think it's alright to create certain kinds of social groups, and be willing to announce your ideology if put to task. But to paint the signs and make big neon lights about it is... well, maybe it's just an American thing. We're so proud, we'll ruffle our feathers at everyone.

    Maybe I'm just being offensive in my next comment, but I'll take a stab and say that I question the naming convention because you don't find other "forms" of karate out there, like "Metrosexual Karate" or "Green Party Tang Soo Do."
    I think so too. I don't find a problem with professing your faith but you shouldn't flaunt it, and all this putting Christianity onto any kind of product imaginable is a little over the top. If anyone gave me any of these as a gift, I wouldn't necessarily reject it or throw it away, its just another mug for me to use whether or not it has a cross on it, but I wouldn't feel it necessary to buy all these products all the time. And as I said before, when I go to a martial arts school, I would want the focus to be on martial arts and not anything else. I don't mind training with friends who are Christian and we may talk about our faith, but the focus still should be on the martial art and not anything else. And I think that would go for any other activity that was origionally religiously neutral, that is of course unless it was adopted for a church activity for some youth program or something like that. But I never heard of martial arts being used like that. Maybe other sports, but ya I think you know where I'm getting at.
    Last edited by sidran; 7/27/2005 12:31pm at .
  4. Year Zero is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/27/2005 1:10pm


     Style: Judo, Brazilian Jujitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Mawashi Geri
    Year Zero Said


    Well...instead of all this guess-work, let me simply tell you the what and why for us.
    I have been in quite a few different kinds of dojos and I respect the approach they have spiritually. So when they require (or expect) that I do things "their way" and that way includes alot of random bits and pieces or religious and spiritual practices that I don't want to engage in, I leave. There is no good reason for me to train at a CERTAIN dojo, so I just thank them for the training they took the time to give me and I leave.

    I am a Christian. I feel as though you know no more about me than you did before I said that because Christianity is so porly represented out there. It seems especially true that rarely does any real thought or plausable idea come out of Christianity these days. Nevertheless, there is a true core to Chrsitianity and because it is rarely seriously evaluated by the outsider, it is hardly even known to exist.

    So I practice karate as a Christian, and inevitably, I teach it as a Christian. The "Christian Karate" is a deliberate open acknowledgment of that. We welcome anyone who will train with us. We teach traditional shotokan karate (with some variances, as is true everywhere). We train hard and love the art. But we don't want to dis-illusion anyone as to the Spiritual premises on which we train....they are NOT eastern as you might expect in a dojo.

    I've never heard of Christian Fly-fishing and Christian debt consolidation is just as much junk-mail to me as it is to you.

    I have a feeling that you all would be calling "Bullshido" all the louder and more insistently if you found a Christian school that tried to hide it by being Christian but being too fearful to openly say so.

    If it were just about labeling the group so that like-minded people can get together in order to practice their common hobby, that is fine. But like I said, and I have almost two-decades of experience in this, they commonly try to bring the religion INTO the hobby itself.
  5. TehDeadlyDimMak is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/27/2005 1:28pm


     Style: Sanda, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Just gotta add that not all of us Christians are skinny little white dudes who get put off by a swear word. A bunch of Christians (myself included) are very serious about their martial arts training/conditioning etc. Of course I agree that I probably wouldn't be nearly as capable if I went to a Christian Dojo such as this...

    Seems like the Christians in question here are just trying to use this "Dojo" as a recruiting center for the faith rather than self-defense training.

    I wonder, are there any other dojos in the area of this one? If not then it would mean that all the children who expressed an interest in martial arts would be forced to go to this one... christian or not...
  6. (Unconfirmed) is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/27/2005 2:43pm


     Style: None... yet.

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Year Zero
    If it were just about labeling the group so that like-minded people can get together in order to practice their common hobby, that is fine. But like I said, and I have almost two-decades of experience in this, they commonly try to bring the religion INTO the hobby itself.
    I actually think it would be a good idea to bring some of the principles in the school, but only the universal ones, like being honest with other people (at least in the school) and putting your all into training. But if its something like "instead of KIAI! we say JESUS!!", or "lets end the class with a word of prayer", I'd be violently opposed to that. (as a Christian)

    But I agree with everyone that says labelling it "Christian Karate" is probably counter-productive. (Next we'll have Islamic aerobics, Aethist square-dancing, and Shinto skiing).

    Just my opinion, could be right, could be wrong.
  7. Leodom is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/27/2005 3:20pm


     Style: CMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I have a brother-in-law who, when he first heard I was studying Kung-Fu, stated his concern that I would be brainwashed into becoming buddhist. Not his exact words but he was afraid that I would be drawn into the "spiritual" aspect of the art and renounce Christianity.

    I suppose having a school with "Christian Karate" in the name might assuage that fear in those who avoid martial arts because they perceive it to be involved with Eastern Religions.

    Other than that, I see no reason to link the two.
    People of integrity expect to be believed. When they're not, they let time prove them right.
  8. shadowcat is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/27/2005 6:14pm


     Style: Shotokan Karate

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    one other point, speaking of keeping religion and training somewhat separate-

    at nationals in NC, there was a prayer in the name of jesus christ. no, my mistake, 2 prayers.
    now, i have nothing against the religion, but i feel that if someone is attempting to make me bow my head in prayer in order to not stand out, that is hindering my right to chose to not associate religion and martial arts.
    i mean, im an aetheist. i cantolerate any religion. HOWEVER, when you try to push your religion onto me, then i have a problem. i just feel religious training as opposed to the traditional training may not be as beneficial.
    and to that post about be a christian who practices karate, but it doesn;t make a it christian karate, i understand your view, but these people actually pray during and at the end of class.
  9. Savatuer is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/27/2005 6:43pm


     Style: TSD, Kung-Fu, Wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    There is absolutely no point to Christian Karate. You don't need to be a Buddhist to practice an Eastern Martial Art.
  10. OZZ is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/27/2005 6:57pm

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     Style: Short Fist Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Ha!
    Maybe we should all try surfing the net until we find a site for a 'Satanic Ninjitsu' school - then we could link the two of them up.

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