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  1. Savatuer is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/26/2005 10:27pm


     Style: TSD, Kung-Fu, Wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    This might work.
  2. Mawashi Geri is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/27/2005 2:28am


     Style: Shotokan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Pick your man

    Shadowcat said:
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Savatuer
    Wait, let me call some of the Christians from other sites to come!


    hell yeah! let them defend themselves! i kid you not, go ahead with it!
    I have made a few posts offering to do just this. If anyone is willing to substantiate the claim that religion and MA ought not to mix, please do so. I would like to seperate the discussion from this one however, just so we can avoid the million pages of random comments to get to the heart of the discussion.

    I would rather make the discussion with a specific individual, not the whole barrel of you. It would not be effective for me to attempt to cover two dozen subjective perspectives at once. If you would pick one from among the lot of you that would certainly make the discussion possible.

    Someone take me up on it. This is almost 20 pages of near-completely unsubstantiated claims. If you have so much conviction, then honestly offer your objections, lets evaluate them.

    Nothing to fear if you're right huh?
  3. Year Zero is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/27/2005 2:49am


     Style: Judo, Brazilian Jujitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Look, there are SOME religions that don't mix with martial arts. Christianity, Islam, and Judaism just DON'T mix well with martial arts. That's why all the good martial arts come from cultures and nations that had a radically different set of religious philosophical views.
  4. Lane is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/27/2005 3:38am


     Style: Muso Shinden Ryu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Year Zero
    Look, there are SOME religions that don't mix with martial arts. Christianity, Islam, and Judaism just DON'T mix well with martial arts. That's why all the good martial arts come from cultures and nations that had a radically different set of religious philosophical views.
    Tell that to all the Christian, European martial artists like George Silver or Fiore. These guys literally wrote the book on classical occidental martial arts. Or to the Muslim warriors of the Ottoman empire. Yeah, they couldn't fight at all. :)

    Now Jainism, where they sweep bugs out of their way to avoid doing "violence" to them... that's not a good religion for a martial art. Even aikido is probably too rough for them.
    --
    L.
  5. Year Zero is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/27/2005 8:12am


     Style: Judo, Brazilian Jujitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Arahoushi
    Tell that to all the Christian, European martial artists like George Silver or Fiore. These guys literally wrote the book on classical occidental martial arts. Or to the Muslim warriors of the Ottoman empire. Yeah, they couldn't fight at all. :)

    Now Jainism, where they sweep bugs out of their way to avoid doing "violence" to them... that's not a good religion for a martial art. Even aikido is probably too rough for them.

    Keep in mind those Occidental arts were mostly developed in the pre-Christian era. If you are familiar with the basic philosophy of pre-Christian Hellenic thought it is almost identical to that of Sanatana Dharma(Hinduism) for obvious reasons. Muslims also gained a lot of their fighting abilities from the Persians, another Indo-European people.
  6. ignatzami is offline
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    l Travel To Get Choked!

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    Posted On:
    7/27/2005 9:28am


     Style: Judo, BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Beer-Fu!

    Quote Originally Posted by gcarson
    Geez Lem.....I can't see why sooo many of my country men have an issue with you low brow, right wing Yanks. Hmmmm....could be cause you just a bunch of bigoted assholes? Now the rest of the americans on this board (you know the ones who don't sacrifice their sons to the 'special attentions' of priests from your oh so holy churches) they are welcome to come up here.

    They can hang out, enjoy real beer, hot girls and wait for you psychotic nuts-for-christ-lamb types to rapture right out of the good old U-S of A...

    Lem...can we keep your stuff when you are taken back to the mothership?
    Yum.... beer-fu! :new_Llol:
  7. kendamu is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/27/2005 10:39am


     Style: Suio Ryu Iai Kenpo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Year Zero
    I can't stand Christians who attempt to bring their philosophy into every aspect of life, now martial arts. If there is any philosophy that has seriously contributed to the advancement of martial arts it would be Zen/Buddhism, Hinduism, Shinto, Taoism, and other NON-dualistic philosophies that encourage self-improvement and self-awareness rather than mindless obedience to some anthropomorphic "God".
    :bowdown:


    'Nuff said.
  8. Doctor Shaft is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/27/2005 11:42am


     Style: TSD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Keep in mind those Occidental arts were mostly developed in the pre-Christian era. If you are familiar with the basic philosophy of pre-Christian Hellenic thought it is almost identical to that of Sanatana Dharma(Hinduism) for obvious reasons. Muslims also gained a lot of their fighting abilities from the Persians, another Indo-European people.
    Does it matter "when" the art was developed? If the two men that taught it were religious persons, I think it would go to say that religion, even Christianity persay, doesn't really clash with the art of fighting. It will certainly alter your perception of how you go about your training (some might find training in solitude in the mountains for a year a "worthwhile" gain, while others may see it as an ultimately selfish or not worthwhile goal), but to say that once you've become a priest, you have to be a pacifist is a big claim.

    Putting myself back into this explosion of a thread, I don't think Christianity is "counter" to martial arts. I personally disagree with the idea of creating a "Christian Karate" school, if only for the fact that because it isn't universal, it will have incredible difficulty being a part of a larger, more secularized or at least religion-neutral community. If boxing were a Christian sport, there'd be a whole lot less boxers, and fighting wouldn't really grow. In addition, it seems kind of a disservice to take a system of fighting and tag "Christian" on top of it. While the school itself may simply be saying, "We're Christians that train," it also carries other connotations, which obviously garnered reaction from so many.

    Likewise, although martial arts may have gotten its philosophy from the more prevalent eastern ideologies, that doesn't mean it was put to the forefront. You didn't practice "Hindu" Karate or "Confucian Hung Gar." Your spirituality was the center of how "you" practiced. Even people that are "secular" or "atheist" have a set of ideologies. Some will say their training is mere thuggery and fighting, and be proud and happy with that. Others will find all sorts of other meanings and usefulness in training their bodies. On the whole, martial arts, regardless of the spiritual tag put on front, is an experience that goes beyond mere physical tedium for those of who enjoy it. It is physical tedium for those who do not. Obviously, we find something in our systems that goes beyond mere "punching people" happiness. Because really, if we were all really smart, we'd just become practiced sharpshooters on our spare time and carry guns (some of us probably do that anyway, myself not included though).
  9. xingyifa is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/27/2005 11:54am


     Style: none currently

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    While christianity is probably not contrary to most of the martial arts in existence, labeling your school as a "christian" school is going to drive away a lot of people who I personally would rather be training with. I hate to steriotype but where I live, most bible thumpers are skinny white people. I'd rather drive down the road and train with the heathens who drink and get in bar fights than the skinny white guys who probably get put off by the occassional cuss word...
  10. Year Zero is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/27/2005 11:55am


     Style: Judo, Brazilian Jujitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Well in terms of Hellenic and other European martial arts Christianity seriously hindered them by closing and/or destroying the gymnasiums and outlawing sportfighting. Other than that religion doesn't really hinder martial arts practice today, but my experience as a former evangelical tells me that these people are the type that need to find some Biblical reference in EVERYTHING they do. I've seen it before:

    Christian dating, Christian Music, Christian debt consolidation, Christian Auto Repair, Christian fly-fishing.

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