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  1. fusenshi is offline

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    Jul 2005
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    Posted On:
    7/20/2005 3:00pm


     Style: Taijutsu/Muay Thai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Taijutsu/Muay Thai/Wrestling

    Hello all,

    Dont know if you remember me, but I was the guy that asked the question about whether taking up wrestling would help me develop a ground game. If you don't, just as background, I've trained in Taijutsu and Muay Thai. My buddy is a wrestling coach. I teach him, he teaches me, we spar and roll to work on techniques.

    At any rate, had a couple of sessions, and I have to say, wrestling is challenging. A lot more goes into the ground work than I originally thought. We had some ground training in taijutsu, but it was more focused on taking down/getting up (i.e. shoot in under a kick into the stabilizing leg, take opponent to the ground, get back up). I am glad I am working on the wrestling because if I had to stay on the ground, I had no real training and would have to rely on instincts.


    After a couple of rolling sessions, I have noticed something though. When we are on the ground, even if I am not in a good position, I can see various strikes or locks/subs that I could take. Does groundfighting always leave you somewhat vulnerable, or is this an inherant flaw in wrestling because it has no strikes? Would something like BJJ account for this flaw (I think it has striking?)? Right now, I am stuck where I am in training resources, so I am making do with just trying to combine what I know with the wrestling, but if a system like BJJ can neutralize this flaw, I would eventually need to seek out training in that as well, in order to be as effective as I can.

    Any opinions?
  2. Ronin is offline

    Senior Member

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    Sep 2003
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    Canada
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    Posted On:
    7/20/2005 3:03pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Shi Ja Quan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by fusenshi
    Hello all,

    Dont know if you remember me, but I was the guy that asked the question about whether taking up wrestling would help me develop a ground game. If you don't, just as background, I've trained in Taijutsu and Muay Thai. My buddy is a wrestling coach. I teach him, he teaches me, we spar and roll to work on techniques.

    At any rate, had a couple of sessions, and I have to say, wrestling is challenging. A lot more goes into the ground work than I originally thought. We had some ground training in taijutsu, but it was more focused on taking down/getting up (i.e. shoot in under a kick into the stabilizing leg, take opponent to the ground, get back up). I am glad I am working on the wrestling because if I had to stay on the ground, I had no real training and would have to rely on instincts.


    After a couple of rolling sessions, I have noticed something though. When we are on the ground, even if I am not in a good position, I can see various strikes or locks/subs that I could take. Does groundfighting always leave you somewhat vulnerable, or is this an inherant flaw in wrestling because it has no strikes? Would something like BJJ account for this flaw (I think it has striking?)? Right now, I am stuck where I am in training resources, so I am making do with just trying to combine what I know with the wrestling, but if a system like BJJ can neutralize this flaw, I would eventually need to seek out training in that as well, in order to be as effective as I can.

    Any opinions?

    I have an opion alright.
    WTF do you mean by this?

    "When we are on the ground, even if I am not in a good position, I can see various strikes or locks/subs that I could take. Does groundfighting always leave you somewhat vulnerable, or is this an inherant flaw in wrestling because it has no strikes? "

    Ask a question that you know the answer to.
    What are you, jewish ?
  3. fusenshi is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/20/2005 3:10pm


     Style: Taijutsu/Muay Thai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by BatRonin
    I have an opion alright.
    WTF do you mean by this?

    "When we are on the ground, even if I am not in a good position, I can see various strikes or locks/subs that I could take. Does groundfighting always leave you somewhat vulnerable, or is this an inherant flaw in wrestling because it has no strikes? "

    Ask a question that you know the answer to.
    What are you, jewish ?

    I wouldn't have asked if I knew the answer to it. The questions I was getting at was is this something that is a flaw of wrestling, and would BJJ cover this better than wrestling?
  4. Snapp is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/20/2005 3:18pm


     Style: Jiu Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    It depends on your instructor I would say. I know in my BJJ class there is NO striking and NO talk of striking or avoiding strikes. It is 100% straight grappling.

    But... In a Carlson Gracie seminar I attended, strikes and more self defense related stuff was covered.

    Although I have never done it (would love to), MMA training would more than likely be the best at covering this.
  5. Ronin is offline

    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    7/20/2005 3:22pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Shi Ja Quan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    You are learning wrestling and as such it is JUST wrestling.
    your striking background shoudl allow you to adjust.
  6. fusenshi is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/20/2005 3:25pm


     Style: Taijutsu/Muay Thai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by BatRonin
    You are learning wrestling and as such it is JUST wrestling.
    your striking background shoudl allow you to adjust.

    I am kindof counting on this. Couple of other questions. Does BJJ cover the things wrestling lacks?
  7. Ronin is offline

    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    7/20/2005 3:26pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Shi Ja Quan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by fusenshi
    I am kindof counting on this. Couple of other questions. Does BJJ cover the things wrestling lacks?

    What does wrestling lack ?
    Besides what you mentioned.
  8. fusenshi is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/20/2005 3:27pm


     Style: Taijutsu/Muay Thai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Snapp
    It depends on your instructor I would say. I know in my BJJ class there is NO striking and NO talk of striking or avoiding strikes. It is 100% straight grappling.

    But... In a Carlson Gracie seminar I attended, strikes and more self defense related stuff was covered.

    Although I have never done it (would love to), MMA training would more than likely be the best at covering this.

    So basically, MMA training will train you in one and then the other, and it is up to you to put it together and make it your own when sparring?
  9. fusenshi is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/20/2005 3:28pm


     Style: Taijutsu/Muay Thai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by BatRonin
    What does wrestling lack ?
    Besides what you mentioned.

    Defenses against locks and strikes. Or these are the ones I have noticed.
  10. DubhGhaill is offline

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    Santa Barbara
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    Posted On:
    7/20/2005 4:34pm


     Style: MMA/JKD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    You will definitely learn to defend against locks and chokes with BJJ. Learning strikes and strike defences might vary from school to school, but I would expect most BJJ places to include them at intermediate/advanced level.
    "So basically, MMA training will train you in one and then the other, and it is up to you to put it together and make it your own when sparring?"
    No. Crosstraining gives you one and then the other (that's what you're doing now), MMA gives it to you all put together.
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