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  1. bushi_no_ki is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/12/2005 1:37am


     Style: TMA, MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Ah, Shorinji Ki, you've touched on a point we can both agree on. It isn't so much the style as it is the stylist. And another one is that there is no "perfect" or "complete" system. Even the UFC has been showing that in the last few years, as someone who is well rounded in some form of striking as well as grappling will prove more dominant if he trains hard.

    You've also hit on the main point of this thread. As a practitioner of AKK, it is my object and hope to clear things up and provide an accurate lineage. Mitose as a MAist I do not doubt, but the way he promoted his "style" I have problems with. It's one thing to take a singer like Elvis Prestley and promote him a little faster than anyone else because of his fame, as a form of marketing, but it's something entirely different to lie about the origins of what you studied to make it look better. In fact, I think the whole thing might have backfired, because Mitose might have gotten much more notoriety if he had publicized his relationship to Choki Motobu, as it would have played on the "streetfighter" image of his uncle, which in Hawaii in those days, as I understand it, would have had more weight with the American population there (much of it being military).

    Now that I've pretty well figured out Mitose's lineage, I'm looking to prove that Frank and William Chow did learn Kung Fu from their father. It would explain alot of what is taught in the Kenpo/Kempo/Kenbo systems that are based off of Chow's teachings.
  2. The Kai is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/12/2005 8:35am


     Style: Kenpo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    "Mitose might have gotten much more notoriety if he had publicized his relationship to Choki Motobu, as it would "

    What was he relationship with Motobu?
  3. Bishop is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/12/2005 1:53pm


     Style: Kajukenbo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by The Kai
    "Mitose might have gotten much more notoriety if he had publicized his relationship to Choki Motobu, as it would "

    What was he relationship with Motobu?
    I would like to see any supporting evidence of a connection between Mitose and Motobu. Mitose told people that there was a family relationship, but Mitose made many false statements during his lifetime.
    Motobu's son say's that there is no family relationship. And that Mitose was not one of his father's black belts.
    When Motobu was in Hawaii, he was detained at the immigration center, and never allowed to leave (except to return to Japan). Visitor records show that the only visitor he had was Thomas Miyashiro.
  4. bushi_no_ki is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/14/2005 8:47pm


     Style: TMA, MMA

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Not surprise to hear you say that Bishop. I wouldn't be surprised in the least if Mitose lied about learning his MA from Motobu. MattJ is sending me a video, so I should be able to ascertain whether Mitose practiced an Okinawan art or a Japanese art. That still leaves a clouded trail of where Mitose learned from.

    Mayber we'll never know for sure where the Japanese/Okninawan influence in kempo styles today came from (exactly). I still intend to try. Maybe I can have an effect on AKK today, and clear up some of the BS.
  5. Bishop is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/15/2005 12:56am


     Style: Kajukenbo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by bushi_no_ki
    Not surprise to hear you say that Bishop. I wouldn't be surprised in the least if Mitose lied about learning his MA from Motobu. MattJ is sending me a video, so I should be able to ascertain whether Mitose practiced an Okinawan art or a Japanese art. That still leaves a clouded trail of where Mitose learned from.

    Mayber we'll never know for sure where the Japanese/Okninawan influence in kempo styles today came from (exactly). I still intend to try. Maybe I can have an effect on AKK today, and clear up some of the BS.
    I have a pretty good idea who taught Okinawan Kempo to James Mitose in Hawaii. And there is supposed to be a living witness to the training, who was a classmate, and has class photographs from back in the 30's.
    But until I see the all the evidence, I'll treat this latest claim as another possible theory. But there's a lot of other older evidence that fits in with this latest theory, and I tend to believe this one much more then all the temple stories.
  6. The Kai is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/15/2005 11:02am


     Style: Kenpo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by bushi_no_ki
    Not surprise to hear you say that Bishop. I wouldn't be surprised in the least if Mitose lied about learning his MA from Motobu. MattJ is sending me a video, so I should be able to ascertain whether Mitose practiced an Okinawan art or a Japanese art. That still leaves a clouded trail of where Mitose learned from.

    Mayber we'll never know for sure where the Japanese/Okninawan influence in kempo styles today came from (exactly). I still intend to try. Maybe I can have an effect on AKK today, and clear up some of the BS.
    It is hard to clear up the BS, when you are trying to replace with your own BS. It hard to be subjective whne you already have the answer, you just need to modify the question enough to fit
  7. Bishop is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/15/2005 10:56pm


     Style: Kajukenbo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I've added another video mpeg to my website of Professor Chow performing in 1966. This should help end the rumor that Prof. Chow never did katas.


    http://www.kajukenboinfo.com/professor_chow.aspx
  8. bushi_no_ki is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/16/2005 2:40am


     Style: TMA, MMA

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Bishop, again, thank you. I would say that the videos are a very important link in the chain. In the '82 demo, I saw distinctly Chinese techniques, as well as distinctly Okinawan techniques, and the Kata from the '60s video was definitely an Okinawan/Japanese kata, one that is common to several different styles of Karate and Kempo.

    The Kai, I have no intention of replacing the currently repeated BS with my own "BS". I will put forth a theory that is backed by documented research. I have at least established that AKK is decended from Okinawan Karate, and not some "temple" art from a noble family in Japan. I now know that to be a load of BS that Mitose used to impress many of the Asians living in Hawaii, and to influence prospective American born students.
  9. The Kai is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/16/2005 8:29am


     Style: Kenpo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    What is the documented okinwan link??
  10. Shorinji Ki is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/16/2005 5:22pm


     Style: Machimura SuiDi

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by The Kai
    What is the documented okinwan link??
    What is the documented Kosho Temple link? That kata looked like an amalgam of Sanchin, Patsai and Tensho. Very Okinawan kata even with the long stances. That form did not look like any Shaolin Lohan Chuan or Southern Shaolin hsing/quan that I've ever seen.
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