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  1. pox is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/29/2005 10:26am


     Style: Kenpo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by The Kai
    Is it as if we're gonna play the "this is the history, regardless if it's true or not" game.
    I'm not quite sure what you mean by that.
    Which parts of the thread do you think are inaccurate?
  2. The Kai is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/29/2005 12:13pm


     Style: Kenpo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Anything after the word "Mitose"
  3. pox is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/29/2005 12:33pm


     Style: Kenpo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by The Kai
    Anything after the word "Mitose"
    I'm sorry, but I'm afraid I don't know what you're trying to say here. Do you object to Mitose? His credentials, or lack thereof? The questions in relation to his place in the history of kenpo? Could you elaborate a little?
  4. The Kai is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/29/2005 12:43pm


     Style: Kenpo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'm sorry I was being a tad flip. Mitose is a lightening rod for controversy. Bishop has well thought out logical, verifible evidence. Yet, still we know there is a histoty that contradicts everything that is said
  5. pox is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/29/2005 1:00pm


     Style: Kenpo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by The Kai
    I'm sorry I was being a tad flip. Mitose is a lightening rod for controversy. Bishop has well thought out logical, verifible evidence. Yet, still we know there is a histoty that contradicts everything that is said
    Fair enough. It does beg the question - why does Mitose seem to feature prominently in kenpo histories?

    I don't understand it. Given that all the accounts I've read (sorry - don't have links at the moment) indicate that he was, at best, a medocre practitioner, and doesn't seem to have a kenpo background, why is he included in AK history?
  6. Bishop is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/29/2005 1:48pm


     Style: Kajukenbo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by pox
    Fair enough. It does beg the question - why does Mitose seem to feature prominently in kenpo histories?

    I don't understand it. Given that all the accounts I've read (sorry - don't have links at the moment) indicate that he was, at best, a medocre practitioner, and doesn't seem to have a kenpo background, why is he included in AK history?
    Sometimes it's much more beneficial to be first, than it is to be best.
  7. Matt Bernius is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/29/2005 1:52pm

    supporting member
     Style: Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    You may also want to check out Classical Fighting Arts v.3 (http://www.dragon-tsunami.org/Cfa/Pa...backissues.htm) which had an indepth look at Mitose's Kempo (James Mitose’s Kempo Karate) that addresses many of the contraditions in his story. I wish I had my copy near by so I could list the author (perhaps our Mr Bishop).

    - Matt
    Student of Wan Yi Chuan Kung Fu,
    Kali, & what ever works
    Renaissance Martial Arts
    Rochester, NY
  8. Bishop is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/29/2005 2:25pm


     Style: Kajukenbo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Bernius
    You may also want to check out Classical Fighting Arts v.3 (http://www.dragon-tsunami.org/Cfa/Pa...backissues.htm) which had an indepth look at Mitose's Kempo (James Mitose’s Kempo Karate) that addresses many of the contraditions in his story. I wish I had my copy near by so I could list the author (perhaps our Mr Bishop).

    - Matt

    Excellent article, but it's not one of mine. It was written by Charles Goodin from Hawaii. You can read more about Mitose at his website:

    http://seinenkai.com/
  9. bushi_no_ki is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/31/2005 9:52pm


     Style: TMA, MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Pox, I haven't been bashing Mitose. So far, I'm not impressed with the man's reputation as a practitioner/teacher of the arts. Now I have an even harder challenge ahead of me, finding out how William Chow managed to become the practitioner he was. I don't recall much about his training, I just know that he trained under Mitose at some time.

    Bishop, thank you for the clarification. Money's a little tight for me, or I'd want to buy copies of some of the notes you have, but if you have the time, perhaps you could post some of the most important info in this thread.

    To whoever asked, no there wasn't an American Kenpo Karate prior to Ed Parker. There was most certainly emty handed fighting styles, but Ed Parker was one of the main players in bringing Oriental Martial Arts to the Mainland US. It was he who started teaching MA at a university (Brigham Young) back before very many people knew what Karate was. It is said that when he opened one of his first dojos in SoCal, with a sign posted that said Karate Kung Fu, people would walk in off the street thinking it was a restraunt. This might be hard for some to swallow, but without people like Ed Parker and Bruce Lee, many of us just might never have studied the MA we do. That's not saying that someone else wouldn't have studied OMA and started teaching it in the US, but these seemed to be the right people for the job. I'm sure both are turning in their graves over what has become of the US MA scene.
  10. Bishop is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/31/2005 10:25pm


     Style: Kajukenbo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by bushi_no_ki

    Bishop, thank you for the clarification. Money's a little tight for me, or I'd want to buy copies of some of the notes you have, but if you have the time, perhaps you could post some of the most important info in this thread.
    Sorry, but I have never sold research information, other then in the form of magazine articles. The research information I've contributed to books, websites, and individuals has always been free. (It was given to me free)
    I have over 20 years of research, so no I can't just post the important stuff here. It's all important, since a whole lot of little pieces of information fit together to make important findings and theories.
    If you want to post some specific questions, then I'll try and answer them, and give you the sources, evidence, or reasons behind any theories.
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