222425 Bullies, 4273 online  
  • Register
Our Sponsors:

Results 11 to 20 of 70
Page 2 of 7 FirstFirst 12 3456 ... LastLast
Sponsored Links Spacer Image
  1. The Kai is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    67

    Posted On:
    7/27/2005 9:13am


     Style: Kenpo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    On Martial Talk there was a decent hread on Mitose. Someone showed the connection between Mitoses techniques and a Okinwan Karate book (the name escapes me). Now that is a sketchy connection to make.
    But the evidence of Mitose training in a temple is even less
  2. Bishop is offline
    Bishop's Avatar

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    PST
    Posts
    205

    Posted On:
    7/27/2005 1:14pm


     Style: Kajukenbo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by bushi_no_ki
    Bishop, I'm saying, where is your documentation. Where is the link to a website with an interview with someone who knew Mitose. Bashing James Mitose is not acceptable in this thread. Providing me with a link to something that tells me why you believe what you say is. I know about Mitose's "con", and his prison sentence, bashing him for those things is pointless. I want substantial information about the man and his training. I have every intention of writing an essay about the origins of AKK, and need the info from all different sides, not just the bashing of one man.
    If telling the truth is "bashing", then so be it. James Mitose's criminal record dates back to the 1940's and is public information.
    And yes, I've interviewed many people who knew James Mitose as far back as the 40's. Some of these people would be: Adriano Emperado, Ed Parker, Sig Kufferath, Wally Jay, Thomas Young, Richard Kim, and a few who knew him in the 70's-81.
    You can go ahead and believe the story about the monks and the Koshoji Temple, but there is nothing in what Mitose actually taught that resembles a Shaolin based temple art.
    First off Mitose's book was a plagarized english translation of a "Karate Kempo" book written years before by Choki Motobu.
    Mitose taught 1 kata, "Naihanchi Shodan". This is a kata from Okinawan karate, that was a favorite of Choki Motobu's.
    Mitose told people in the 40's-50's (including Adriano Emperado) that his teacher was his uncle, Choki Motobu.
    Mitose's students trained extensively with the "makiwara", a Okinawan training device.
    And who does Mitose have pictured in his book? Not any Mitose family "Kosho" masters, but two Okinawan karate masters. Choki Motobu, and Kanesuke Higashiona.
    Mitose's students in Hawaii never heard of "Kosho Ryu" , until Mitose's book came out after Mitose left Hawaii. They we told their system was "Kenpo Jiu Jutsu".
    Even the book was a con. Mitose had several of his students invest money in it so Mitose could self publish it. They were all supposed to share in the profits from the book. Well, Mitose left Hawaii with the books, and no one ever got a dime from the sales of the book; except Mitose.
    But anyway, you go ahead and search for evidence to support the fairy tale of the Koshoji Temple and Kosho Shorei Ryu Kenpo.
    But please, bring forth your evidence here when you finally find the truth that all of us have been missing over the decades.

    John Bishop
    Last edited by Bishop; 7/28/2005 1:13pm at .
  3. Meex is offline
    Meex's Avatar

    Loving Father

    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Upstate
    Posts
    3,000

    Posted On:
    7/27/2005 1:23pm

    supporting member
     Style: Tao Ga

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    'sup, John. . .
    welcome to Bullshido!

    `~/
  4. bushi_no_ki is offline
    bushi_no_ki's Avatar

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    393

    Posted On:
    7/27/2005 10:32pm


     Style: TMA, MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    John, thank you for going more in depth on that. Now we've crossed the line from bashing to honest research. I might have believed parts of the story when I was a white belt, had I ever been told the story, but my study of japanese culture has warned me not to believe such obvious bs. You've just given me one of the key links in the chain of history, actual people who knew mitose, but wouldn't have any motivations to maintain his stories (ie Ed Parker or Al Tracy). Now that I have a discernible link to Okinawan MA, I can search along those lines. What ever may be said about Mitose's character, his arts weren't very questionable.
    Last edited by bushi_no_ki; 7/27/2005 10:35pm at .
  5. pox is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    240

    Posted On:
    7/28/2005 8:17am


     Style: Kenpo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by bushi_no_ki
    I understand that a certain amount of the history was inflated by Mitose to make his style look good in the eyes of Japanese who were big on tradition/age.

    Quote Originally Posted by bushi_no_ki
    The only rule is you back everything you say in here with some sort of proof.
    ?????
  6. bushi_no_ki is offline
    bushi_no_ki's Avatar

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    393

    Posted On:
    7/28/2005 11:09pm


     Style: TMA, MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    pox, that means that you have a link, a quote from an interview, a book, or something like that. I'm looking for alot of missing pieces to this puzzle. I really don't have time for people who just bash James Mitose without backing it up (neither do many of the serious posters on this forum). The title of this forum is "Martial Arts History Project", not "Bash Any Master You Don't Like".
  7. bushi_no_ki is offline
    bushi_no_ki's Avatar

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    393

    Posted On:
    7/28/2005 11:51pm


     Style: TMA, MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    John, I noticed on your site that you used the term Kosho Ryu Kenpo instead of Kempo Jujutsu on the "Find Your Kenpo Roots" chart. I'm just wondering if there was a preference for that nominclature, or if this is from before the Emperado interview, and you've never changed it? I also need to look and see if I can find the page where I saw it, but I know that Hoon Chow's Kung Fu training has been called into question. It is obivous to anyone with any experience with AKK, Okinawan Karate, and Chinese fighting arts that AKK is a mix though.
  8. Bishop is offline
    Bishop's Avatar

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    PST
    Posts
    205

    Posted On:
    7/29/2005 12:57am


     Style: Kajukenbo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by bushi_no_ki
    John, I noticed on your site that you used the term Kosho Ryu Kenpo instead of Kempo Jujutsu on the "Find Your Kenpo Roots" chart. I'm just wondering if there was a preference for that nominclature, or if this is from before the Emperado interview, and you've never changed it?
    I just list it as "Kosho Ryu" because that's the name all the Mitose followers call his art now days. I'm not even interested in whether they want to spell it "KeNpo" or "KeMpo". A lot of them re-invent their history every 10 years or so anyway.
    Now days people dispute the information Mitose's first black belt in Hawaii (Thomas Young) told me in the 80's, like he didn't even know what was going on in his own classes. But I've got a file cabinet full of notes and letters from many of the people who were involved with Hawaiian kenpo from day one.
  9. pox is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    240

    Posted On:
    7/29/2005 5:20am


     Style: Kenpo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by bushi_no_ki
    pox, that means that you have a link, a quote from an interview, a book, or something like that. I'm looking for alot of missing pieces to this puzzle. I really don't have time for people who just bash James Mitose without backing it up (neither do many of the serious posters on this forum). The title of this forum is "Martial Arts History Project", not "Bash Any Master You Don't Like".
    Fair enough. But what makes you think that Mitose's history has been inflated or distorted? You've fallen foul of your own rules by not providing any references to what you based those assertions on.
    I haven't seen any untoward Mitose bashing on this thread. I think most people on bullshido don't care enough to bash him. In response to your request for Mitose's kenpo lineage, posters have replied and said it doesn't exist. How does this constitute bashing?
    And as a side issue - was there any AKK pre-Ed Parker?
  10. The Kai is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    67

    Posted On:
    7/29/2005 9:19am


     Style: Kenpo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Is it as if we're gonna play the "this is the history, regardless if it's true or not" game.
Page 2 of 7 FirstFirst 12 3456 ... LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Powered by vBulletin™© contact@vbulletin.com vBulletin Solutions, Inc. 2011 All rights reserved.