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  1. Peter H. is offline

    Professional Wrestler

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    Oct 2003
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    San Angelo, TX
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    Posted On:
    7/16/2005 12:47pm


     Style: Aikido-Kickboxing-Taichi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce W Sims
    What about testing requirements? When you test the children are they bound by the same requirements and order that one expects of an adult? Are the requirements modified for passing? I guess what I am asking is how much do you compell the little kids to "act like the big kids"? Thoughts?

    Best Wishes,

    Bruce

    The kids criteria is based on gross movements and recalling the parts of technique, regardless if they can put them together in an effective manner.

    I expect more of the older kid students, but a 5 or 6 year old yellow or blue belt, I'm not demanding that they be able to do a passable randori. A 10 year old, better be able to against someone their own size and skill level.
    "Quiet fool before I am kicking the butt!"
    -My three year old trash talking to me

    "Integrity can't be bought or sold---you either have it or you don't."
    -The Honky Tonk Man

    "If you can't be a shining example, at least be a dire warning."
    -My Father to me one day

    "No surprise. Until Aikido sheds its street-brawling, thuggish image, it'll never be mainstream."
    -Don Gwinn
  2. Scrapper is offline
    Scrapper's Avatar

    Fear and bullets.

    Join Date
    Sep 2004
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    Dayville, Connecticut, United States
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    Posted On:
    7/16/2005 1:23pm

    staff
     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by dakotajudo
    Good God, are they even out of diapers?

    Not always!

    But it's a living!
    And lo, Kano looked down upon the field and saw the multitudes. Amongst them were the disciples of Uesheba who were greatly vexed at his sayings. And Kano spake: "Do not be concerned with the mote in thy neighbor's eye, when verily thou hast a massive stick in thine ass".

    --Scrolls of Bujutsu: Chapter 5 vs 10-14.
  3. Bruce W Sims is offline

    Registered Member

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    Posted On:
    7/16/2005 7:51pm


     Style: Yon Mu Kwan Hapkido

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    OK--- this may start trouble, but there is a kind of parallel discussion go on another Net and I asked this there so I throw it out for what its worth.

    When you are teaching children, when and how do you introduce the more serious material. For instance, what age would you begin to show a person in Judo or ju-jutsu how to choke-out a partner? When and how would you introduce pain-compliant techniques? How about edged or pointed weapons such as knives, swords or spear-like weapons? Since I don't teach children I have very little in the way of grounds for comparison in such things. Thoughts? Comments?

    Best Wishes,

    Bruce
  4. NSLightsOut is offline
    NSLightsOut's Avatar

    Registered Member

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    Australia
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    Posted On:
    7/17/2005 8:48am


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I've taught six and seven year olds a number of fairly basic upper-body subs (RNC, ezekiel, kimura, straight armlock) My instructor makes sure that he knows the kid's character fairly well before we go about teaching them submissions. I haven't taught them a number of the nastier submissions I know (neck cranks, twister, leg locks) due to the potential harm that it would do to their developing bodies. They don't get to spar with subs, rather, some poor fucker (usually me) gets to play grappling dummy for them while they drill them.

    I haven't had a single complaint/impending lawsuit yet.
  5. VikingPower is offline
    VikingPower's Avatar

    Yes Koto got his name changed, quit asking...

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    Dec 2004
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    Posted On:
    7/17/2005 9:40am

    supporting member
     Style: Kyokushin Karate

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Whenever I finally get to the point where I may consider teaching, I will never teach kids. I'll probably restrict my students to at least 18+, maybe 16 or 17 if the kid's mature enough, but no younger. If I'm gonna be teaching something I want to benefit from it, too, and trying to get several 10-year olds with ADD to do a technique is not something I want to deal with.
  6. Scrapper is offline
    Scrapper's Avatar

    Fear and bullets.

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    Posted On:
    7/17/2005 10:26am

    staff
     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce W Sims
    OK--- this may start trouble, but there is a kind of parallel discussion go on another Net and I asked this there so I throw it out for what its worth.

    When you are teaching children, when and how do you introduce the more serious material. For instance, what age would you begin to show a person in Judo or ju-jutsu how to choke-out a partner? When and how would you introduce pain-compliant techniques? How about edged or pointed weapons such as knives, swords or spear-like weapons? Since I don't teach children I have very little in the way of grounds for comparison in such things. Thoughts? Comments?

    Best Wishes,

    Bruce

    USJI and USA Judo do not permit chokes/strangles untill 13 years old, and armbars are not permitted until 17. This is a pretty good formula in my opinion. There is plenty of judo/jujitsu to teach without getting into these things up until then.

    Weapons can be introduced fairly early, provided they are safe facsimiles and not live weapons. I wouldn't give a student anything with an edge or a point until 15 or so. *shudder* Too risky!
    And lo, Kano looked down upon the field and saw the multitudes. Amongst them were the disciples of Uesheba who were greatly vexed at his sayings. And Kano spake: "Do not be concerned with the mote in thy neighbor's eye, when verily thou hast a massive stick in thine ass".

    --Scrolls of Bujutsu: Chapter 5 vs 10-14.
  7. Dralion is offline

    Registered Member

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    Feb 2004
    Location
    Camp Hill PA
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    287

    Posted On:
    7/17/2005 10:46am


     Style: Aikido

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrapper
    I don't see any good reason to start testing children for competency untill about 5 years old. Children under five just need to be introduced to the material in a manner that is fun and engaging.

    I start with kids at 2.5 years old for all my programs, and we just cover the very broad physical aspects of the MA or sport. If you start trying to enforce competency, you will alienate the children and create resistance to the activity. The goal is to make them love it, so they will desire competency on their own.
    I can accept this, as I'm sure my Dad played "catch" with my Brother and I when we were able to stand and walk. There are pictures my Aunt has of us playing with mini-footballs, etc.

    But I still say that 7-8 is when you should introduce concepts of rank, etc.

    But that's just me.
  8. Cakemaster is offline

    Ex-RAF

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    Apr 2005
    Location
    Cardiff, UK
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    476

    Posted On:
    7/17/2005 10:48am


     Style: Kyokushin

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'd have to go with the theory that it depends on the kid. We have a couple of 10 year olds in our class, one of whom is very good, the other tends to mess around a lot. So I'd look at it with a case-by-case basis.
  9. Bruce W Sims is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/17/2005 4:00pm


     Style: Yon Mu Kwan Hapkido

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrapper
    USJI and USA Judo do not permit chokes/strangles untill 13 years old, and armbars are not permitted until 17. This is a pretty good formula in my opinion. There is plenty of judo/jujitsu to teach without getting into these things up until then.

    Weapons can be introduced fairly early, provided they are safe facsimiles and not live weapons. I wouldn't give a student anything with an edge or a point until 15 or so. *shudder* Too risky!

    So when younger kids randori is it just an adjusted version of Olympic rules? Is there a substitution for matwork (IE. A wrestling pin subs for a choke?) or is matwork entirely out of the picture until the teens?

    I am assuming at 13 they are not yet "tapping-out" --- or are they?

    Are there sexual issues regarding body contact, dominance, submission and so forth. What I mean is, for instance, are there issues that proceed from a female dominating a competition? Is there a reluctance on the part of young males to productively accept being "tapped-out" by a better-skilled female? Is there reluctance of males to use the same level of aggression in competing with females as they might with a male? I don't know if these are actual issues or maybe they are simply part of the learning curve?? Do these things become better or worse as students hit their teens and begin to develop? Thoughts? Comments?

    Best Wishes,
  10. Scrapper is offline
    Scrapper's Avatar

    Fear and bullets.

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    Posted On:
    7/17/2005 4:34pm

    staff
     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Randori for the under-13 kids in judo is basically throws and pins. In judo, if you can achieve a pin/hold (opponent's back exposed to the mat and under full control; guard and half-guard are NOT considered pins) and hold it for 25 seconds it counts as ippon.

    Males and females compete separately, and in class I don't know that sexual issues/dominacnce has ever come up beyond the basic pre-teen "grappling looks sexual" jokes. I was competing and training pretty hard as a teenager and don't know that any sexual issues ever came up. We were kids and we goofed off, but nothing deviant came of it. Furthermore, everyone is expected to engage at an apprpriate level of aggression for their opponent regardless of gender. Beating on an unskilled or overmatched opponent is bad form no matter what.

    Once submissions are introduced (chokes at 13) students are expected to know when to tap out. Alternatively, they can call "maitta" (sp?) which means something alomg the lines of "uncle" or "I give."

    i hope that helps!
    And lo, Kano looked down upon the field and saw the multitudes. Amongst them were the disciples of Uesheba who were greatly vexed at his sayings. And Kano spake: "Do not be concerned with the mote in thy neighbor's eye, when verily thou hast a massive stick in thine ass".

    --Scrolls of Bujutsu: Chapter 5 vs 10-14.
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