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  1. Hedgehogey is offline
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    Tsun-Derrorist

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    Posted On:
    7/15/2005 4:42pm

    supporting member
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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Wali
    I can't speak for the silat taught in the US, but can say that the silat I learn in the UK (WaliSongo silat) can hold it out with any ground fighting system out there, including wrestling, bjj etc...
    1: Opponent has taken your back. He has hooks in and has stretched you out to the point where your back bends. He is looking to slide his forearm across your throat for RNC.

    2: Opp. shoots a double leg, head to the outside but too tight for a guillotine. The penetration is deep and you can feel yourself losing balance as he drives.

    3: You are in opp.'s guard and he has control of your wrist and has pushed it back. He is shifting his hips out to the side, looking to attack with the kimura/arm down keylock, triangle, omoplata combo.

    What is the silat response to these situations?

    We spar with top BJJ fighters and MMA competitors.
    Who?
    Steve Benitez, and to anyone that has met him, whether in silat circles of BJJ circles or whatever circles knows that the training we do is on par with anyone else.
    There is no indication on the web that he ever studied BJJ.


    "The only important elements in any society
    are the artistic and the criminal,
    because they alone, by questioning the society's values,
    can force it to change."-Samuel R. Delany

    RENDERING GELATINOUS WINDMILL OF DICKS

    THIS IS GOING TO BE THE BEST NON-EUCLIDIAN SPLATTERJOUST EVER

    It seems that the only people who support anarchy are faggots, who want their pathetic immoral lifestyle accepted by the mainstream society. It wont be so they try to create their own.-Oldman34, friend to all children
  2. Hedgehogey is offline
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    Tsun-Derrorist

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    Posted On:
    7/15/2005 4:47pm

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    [QUOTE=IronChef TMA]Greetings,

    I have to weigh in with Hedgehogey, although I find the demand for video a little ironic, and LoC.


    2. I think the key here is that they can be destructive, depending upon how you do them, however you also need to learn to do them for control purposes and mercy. In the end this isn't much different than the BJJ/JJ so popular on this board. An armbar easily becomes destructive, especially if you snap down immediately without control. For all of the "destructiveness" of the techniques you need to learn to apply them with control when training, bluntly if you can't drill it don't expect to be able to do it, this really isn't any different in any MA, are you going to start breaking your training partners? Also you need to be able to do the movements mercifully as not every occassion is one in which you should instantly destroy your opponent.
    GIVE A FUCKING EXAMPLE

    AND DO. YOU. SPAR?


    "The only important elements in any society
    are the artistic and the criminal,
    because they alone, by questioning the society's values,
    can force it to change."-Samuel R. Delany

    RENDERING GELATINOUS WINDMILL OF DICKS

    THIS IS GOING TO BE THE BEST NON-EUCLIDIAN SPLATTERJOUST EVER

    It seems that the only people who support anarchy are faggots, who want their pathetic immoral lifestyle accepted by the mainstream society. It wont be so they try to create their own.-Oldman34, friend to all children
  3. Lord Of Chaos is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/15/2005 4:48pm


     Style: pentjak silat/ kali

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Iron Chef-

    T was my teacher and G was one of my classmates. T is taking the summer off from training which sucks big time. Not to sound like a tuff guy idiot but, we started to REALLY "put the pain on" extra hard in last remaining weeks of classes before T ended them. G and I especially used to get into it in a "big bro (him) educating little bro (me)" kinda way.

    Hormat
    -LoC
  4. CMack11 is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/15/2005 5:27pm


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The god-emperor regrets having to do this to his own training partner/ghola.



    The penetration is deep and you can feel yourself losing balance as he drives.


    Dirty bastard. Isn't that a little personal to be asking somebody on the boards? Maybe you should PM him with that kind of stuff.

    Last edited by Hedgehogey; 7/15/2005 9:49pm at .
  5. Lord Of Chaos is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/15/2005 5:50pm


     Style: pentjak silat/ kali

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Oh what treasures lie beneath the sarong....
  6. IronChef TMA is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/15/2005 7:49pm


     Style: Silat, Taijiquan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by hedgehogey

    GIVE A FUCKING EXAMPLE

    AND DO. YOU. SPAR?
    Greetings,

    I gave an example when mentioning the guillotine choke. Similar principles for most of the rest.

    Not fully resistant sparring yet, nope. Different approach than you would approve of, we build up to free sparring adding various levels resistance as we progress. Until we can demonstrate proficiency and smoothness with the moves in the earlier stages in application we won't. I know you won't like that. We are building up to it through various approaches you might think of as one-step, three-step, etc. starting with gross cooperative movements, then just reaching out with a love tap and letting the guy know when he is sloppy during, then making them earn it, then messing up the technique etc. and are working towards free sparring. Not the best approach if you are looking to step into a ring in a short time frame. Will probably be a while. Most of us came into the silat from other backgrounds though, and have sparred in other arts.

    So the answer is yes there is free sparring in the silat I am learning, but none of the students are there yet, so I am sorry but I can't be more descriptive of it in the way you would like right now.

    IronChef TMA
  7. IronChef TMA is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/15/2005 7:57pm


     Style: Silat, Taijiquan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Of Chaos
    Iron Chef-
    Not to sound like a tuff guy idiot but, we started to REALLY "put the pain on" extra hard in last remaining weeks of classes before T ended them. G and I especially used to get into it in a "big bro (him) educating little bro (me)" kinda way.

    Hormat
    -LoC
    Greetings,

    There both cool guys in my opinion. It didn't come off that way to me because I know them, its more funny, IMO, than anything else.

    IronChef TMA
  8. Hedgehogey is offline
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    Tsun-Derrorist

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    Posted On:
    7/15/2005 9:00pm

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by IronChef TMA
    Greetings,

    I gave an example when mentioning the guillotine choke. Similar principles for most of the rest.
    Wait, ok, let me get this straight....You don't actually wrestle at all, much less have any functional knowledge or delivery system for controlling the head, but all your takedowns are based on yanking his head around?

    Not fully resistant sparring yet, nope. Different approach than you would approve of, we build up to free sparring adding various levels resistance as we progress....
    So the answer is yes there is free sparring in the silat I am learning, but none of the students are there yet, so I am sorry but I can't be more descriptive of it in the way you would like right now.

    IronChef TMA
    T LoC: You seem to have tried real hard, and I appreciate the effort, but your good words vs. "Neck control without sparring for neck control" here...well, it's not the same. We go forward...we come back.


    "The only important elements in any society
    are the artistic and the criminal,
    because they alone, by questioning the society's values,
    can force it to change."-Samuel R. Delany

    RENDERING GELATINOUS WINDMILL OF DICKS

    THIS IS GOING TO BE THE BEST NON-EUCLIDIAN SPLATTERJOUST EVER

    It seems that the only people who support anarchy are faggots, who want their pathetic immoral lifestyle accepted by the mainstream society. It wont be so they try to create their own.-Oldman34, friend to all children
  9. CMack11 is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/15/2005 10:09pm


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    You twisted soul.

    I'm coming to class tomorrow dressed like that and I'm going to ask you to roll with me every 5 minutes.
  10. IronChef TMA is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/15/2005 10:18pm


     Style: Silat, Taijiquan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by hedgehogey
    Wait, ok, let me get this straight.... but all your takedowns are based on yanking his head around?
    "...could it be that once again El Guapo is having trouble with a
    woman and is looking to take it out on poor Jefe?"

    Greetings,

    I fail to see how jumping to an assumption like that is getting something straight.

    I do apologize if I misconveyed information, but I think you should try reading the original post again. All of the entries and intermediate techniques, whether strikes, or various types of takedowns, build toward the objective of a puter. There are different types of puters, they can happen at different stages.

    I'll try to describe another. If you look at one of the ground armbars such as:
    http://www.asu.edu/clubs/pankration/ArmBar.jpg
    (first one that popped up on google--sorry I only watch the stuff can't talk the technical MMA talk) now cross the left leg's shin under the guy's neck (it shifts the pressure to the arm from between the crook of the hips over your leg bone) and as you hyperextend the elbow to stiffen the guy you would scissor (you would actually coming down harder over the head like a strike) right then with the impact coming down and slightly in and the under shin coming up and somewhat out. However, rather than doing that, you can simply use the legs to hold (you can hook them like a triangle choke), and apply the pressure for the tap. I think you can see an example of the movement as other than relying on takedowns yanking the guy's head. Which is to say that someone might say doing that is too destructive or "too deadly", but you don't need to go that entire route for the control. In fact, in this case you are simply stopping with pain, before you do damage to the arm for control. This would be a different example of a puter technique. You don't rely on one specific type of takedown or setup to get there, any more than you need to for the armbar in its many variations. It would, of course, need a somewhat different setup than the armbar in the photo anyway.

    Thanks for replying. It seems to me you are looking more to be contentious than curious to find about about something different, and why some people might say what they do, so I'll be heading back to lurk now.

    IronChef TMA
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