Taking up a new system

**fusenshi** · Posted On: 7/13/2005 2:35pm

Originally Posted by TakeAnother

Why does every Ninja say this? Do a search and indulge yourself in many of the long reads about what is wrong with Taijutsu.

Ironically, every Bunjikan member always states that most Ninjas are ineffective fighters, however, they are part of the select few that know the REAL Taijutsu. And they all come and post here...

Wrestling will not be enough. While offering excellent takedown and positioning skills, you'll be lacking the submission/submission defense skills. Call me a cynic, but I don't think your Ninja training will give you those submission skills. If you don't believe me, enroll in a formal BJJ/MMA/Judo program.

First of all, please don't call it Ninja training. As of yet, I have yet to be given my grappling hook and taught how to climb buildings and throw smoke bombs.

Second of all, I have no idea why most members would say that.

Lastly, I never said I knew the REAL Taijutsu. All I stated was that the instruction of that taijutsu is different than most schools I have visited.

Now onto the wrestling part. I am just looking for something to get me started really.

**fusenshi** · Posted On: 7/13/2005 2:38pm

Originally Posted by _Mick_

look out everybody! he has the real ninjitsu.

as for wrestling. it will increase your balance, and give you strong takedowns. on the ground you will learn dominant positions, but no submissions. (im assuming is freestyle or folk style wrestling)

Man, you guys really do have bugs up your ass about ninjutsu.

I wasn't aware (because I have no experience with it) that wrestling did not have submissions. I am new to the ground fighting, so what would you consider a submission, for an example?

**Zendetta** · Posted On: 7/13/2005 2:39pm

Originally Posted by fusenshi

I seriously don't understand why this system (Ninjutsu) gets such a bad rap here.

Sadly, many members here have experienced Ninja-related traumas in their early lives.

JKDChick, for example, had her whole clan exterminated by ninjas, and she naturally swore revenge. I think that Yrkoon was raised by Ninjas, but they were from an evil Ninja clan, so he split with them and was disowned. Or was it that they weren't evil enough? I forget.

BatRonin IS an active duty Ninja, but he has to conceal it (contractual obligations) under a tough judo-and-kyokushin facade. :zicon_bat

Bring some caltrops and poison shuriken to the next throwdown and you'll get some respect, I promise.

**TakeAnother** · Posted On: 7/13/2005 2:48pm

Chokes and armbars are the common examples of submissions (watch some good MMA ground fights to get an understanding of that), though there are countless submissions overall (leg locks, neck cranks, whatever). Anything that will make someone tap out.

Wrestling does not have this element. Matches are won by points for superior positioning.

If you're serious about this, don't waste your time rolling around with your wrestling buddy once every two weeks. Sign up for a few weeks of classes at a BJJ/MMA school. It will simultenously give you a feel for the ground game and show you what is lacking in your Ninja training and why everyone is making fun of you.

**fusenshi** · Posted On: 7/13/2005 2:48pm

Originally Posted by Zendetta

Bring some caltrops and poison shuriken to the next throwdown and you'll get some respect, I promise.

Maybe I should wear my hood to, just so I can look legitimate.

**fusenshi** · Posted On: 7/13/2005 2:50pm

Originally Posted by TakeAnother

Chokes and armbars are the common examples of submissions (watch some good MMA ground fights to get an understanding of that), though there are countless submissions overall (leg locks, neck cranks, whatever). Anything that will make someone tap out.

Wrestling does not have this element. Matches are won by points for superior positioning.

If you're serious about this, don't waste your time rolling around with your wrestling buddy once every two weeks. Sign up for a few weeks of classes at a BJJ/MMA school. It will simultenously give you a feel for the ground game and show you what is lacking in your Ninja training and why everyone is making fun of you.

I live in a rural area with no access to those kinds of classes. I guess I have to take what I can get.

**TakeAnother** · Posted On: 7/13/2005 2:55pm

Where in Georgia do you live? If you can find the Bunjinkan in your area, we might be able to find some Judo/MMA.

**fusenshi** · Posted On: 7/13/2005 2:58pm

Originally Posted by TakeAnother

Where in Georgia do you live? If you can find the Bunjinkan in your area, we might be able to find some Judo/MMA.

Milledgeville, which is central georgia. I travel 45 min one way to macon for training right now. I'd be interested in either of those if I could find something close, and I've looked.

**daGorilla** · Posted On: 7/13/2005 2:58pm

Originally Posted by Zendetta

Sadly, many members here have experienced Ninja-related traumas in their early lives.

JKDChick, for example, had her whole clan exterminated by ninjas, and she naturally swore revenge. I think that Yrkoon was raised by Ninjas, but they were from an evil Ninja clan, so he split with them and was disowned. Or was it that they weren't evil enough? I forget.

BatRonin IS an active duty Ninja, but he has to conceal it (contractual obligations) under a tough judo-and-kyokushin facade. :zicon_bat

Bring some caltrops and poison shuriken to the next throwdown and you'll get some respect, I promise.

Oh crikey. And here I thought we just sprayed for ninjas...

-daGorilla :)

**Yrkoon9** · Posted On: 7/13/2005 2:59pm

Originally Posted by fusenshi

Man, you guys really do have bugs up your ass about ninjutsu.

No. Most of us here are quite tolerant of ninjitsu. What we have a problem with is guys who dress up in tabi socks, swing swords around, talk about poison and mind control and in thier next sentence believe they are talking about practical martial arts.

Originally Posted by fusenshi

I wasn't aware (because I have no experience with it) that wrestling did not have submissions. I am new to the ground fighting, so what would you consider a submission, for an example?

Any finishing technique that causes your opponent to submit from pain, the actual threat of unconsciousness and/or the possibility of severe bodily injury. For example twisting arm so the shoulder joint is about to pop out. In Judo and Jiu Jitsu these are sometimes referred to as Ude Garami, Americana's, or Kimura's. In wrestling they really aren't submissions per se, but a chicken wing could be just as effective if the correct pressure is applied. A choke hold that could render you unconscious could be a submission.

But let's clarify things. Holding someone's wrist at an awkward angle, expecting them to stay bent over as you execute the coup de gras is not a submission. Neither is jamming your thumb into thier armpit while holding that wrist, as they writhe and scream.

I need to be really fuckin clear about this. The division between corny bullshit and effective techniques is wide and deep. If you need guidance to find that division I will not fault you. As many of us were led to the same place at one point or another. But if even after you have seen that division you still espose the thumb in the armpit wristlock while claiming its effectiveness in 'teh street', I will be forced to put my virtual foot in your ass and kick you into that divide.