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  1. Gezere is offline
    Gezere's Avatar

    My guns bigger than Scrapper's!

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    Posted On:
    7/13/2005 10:58am

    supporting member
     Style: Kakutogi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by drunken monkey
    that article high-lights something that many wing chun people never seem to comprehend.
    most, if not all of the people teaching wing chun with some sort of grappling aspect has had prior experience in styles that deal with grappling, be it judo, jujutsu or in this case wrestling.
    simply bolting on grappling aspects to a style and then saying that it is going to be anything near as good as the original is stupid. i don't care that the guy who teaches you wing chun+grappling can do amazing things; that's probably because he has x years of experience in doing it.
    he isn't doing the wing chun+grappling that you are learning, he is doing wing chun and grappling as two separate things which he has experience in.

    personally, i've never really understood the saying 'never wrestle a wrestler'.
    i would've thought that the best way to beat someone who wrestles is to be a better wrestler than them. i mean, if you don't learn to wrestle, you'll never really know what they do or what it feels like having them things done to you. if you don't learn to wrestle then at best you are only making assumptions about what it is they do and we all know what they about assumptions.


    *whistele toss Red flag* :angry6:

    Penalty. Using Logic and Rational Thinking!!! 15 yard penalty!!!

    Monkey, those things are POISON to BS artist. You have to be careful with it.
    ______
    Xiao Ao Jiang Hu Zhi Dong Fang Bu Bai (Laughing Proud Warrior Invincible Asia) Dark Emperor of Baji!!!

    RIP SOLDIER

    Didn't anyone ever tell him a fat man could never be a ninja
    -Gene, GODHAND

    You can't practice Judo just to win a Judo Match! You practice so that no matter what happens, you can win using Judo!
    The key to fighting two men at once is to be much tougher than both of them.
    -Daniel Tosh
  2. daGorilla is offline

    Senior Member

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    Seattle, WA area
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    Posted On:
    7/13/2005 11:05am


     Style: Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by BatRonin
    A top level MA can pretty much make anything work, so you must compare apples with apples and oranged with oranges.

    In other words, youmust comapare a Top Level WT guy, like kenspecht, with a top level grappler like, lets say, an olympic class judoka, or a Top Level MMA like Couture.

    Or we compare a average WT student with an average BJJ student.

    No other comparison is valid.
    A very good point -- one often missed in these forums.

    You are the Batman!

    -daGorilla
  3. amichaell is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/13/2005 11:22am


     Style: nothing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I've always thought the smart way to train is for worst case scenario. Sure, you might not want to fight on the ground and you might be good at avoiding such, but we've all heard the saying: There is always someone better than you.

    With that in mind, if you fight often then one day you will be on the ground and on that day you'd better hope you put some training into dealing with it. I think anyone learning wing chun, or any standup striking art for that matter, who doesn't put some time into ground fighting is cheating themselves. Just my newbie opinion.
  4. Yrkoon9 is offline
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    Brock Sampson

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    Land of the Living
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    Posted On:
    7/13/2005 11:26am

    supporting member
     Style: 5.56

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    A decent thread so far. Amazing considering the subject matter. I applaud the efforts here, but dread the moment Emin worshippers arrive.
  5. Jaric is offline

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    Ottawa
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    Posted On:
    7/13/2005 3:52pm


     Style: Maybe Kyokushin soon...

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Look I pratice WC and ive never been taught any ani-grappling tech. If I want to learn how to fight on the ground, ill crosstrain in a grappling art (which I have). Sheesh, next well be hearing about the TKD anti-grappling tech...
  6. Locu5 is offline
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    Zombie Herald

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    Feb 2004
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    Atlanta, GA
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    Posted On:
    7/13/2005 4:04pm

    supporting member
     Style: Alliance BJJ (Blue)

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I await ChineseFist's input on _ing _ung grappling.
  7. Year Zero is offline

    Registered Member

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    Posted On:
    7/13/2005 5:34pm


     Style: Judo, Brazilian Jujitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I think people, like I once did(before having any real experience with MA) believe that grappling ALWAYS means winning via grappling techniques on the ground. This is not the case at all. For one, the first part of grappling is PUTTING your opponent on the ground, preferably in a position that gives you control. Second, it is not REQUIRED to put them on the ground- but grappling knowledge can help you prevent THEM from putting on the ground via clinching techniques and take-down/throw counters. And if they DO manage to get you on the ground, grappling skills can tell you how to get out of bad positions and then obtain a better position from which you could stand back up and continue striking if so inclined. Basically a striker can force a grappler to play his striking game- IF HE IS EXPERIENCED AND PROFICIENT IN GRAPPLING, not some kind of nonsensical "anti-grappling". EXAMPLE: Sprawk-and-brawl fighters.



    Also, can anyone point to a link that explains(with pictures or video) what "chain punches" are? Because that nonsense about keeping them at distance with chain punches wreaks of bullshido. What happens when a powerful boxer begins throwing a fast combo of powerful punches? The opponent puts up his guard, walks into the punchs and clinches the attacker. I have a feeling a grappler could to the same to some chain punching Kung Fooie, and probably get better results because without gloves Kung Fu boy is going to have sore if not broken hands after landing a few punches.
  8. Locu5 is offline
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    Zombie Herald

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    Posted On:
    7/13/2005 5:37pm

    supporting member
     Style: Alliance BJJ (Blue)

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Chain punches can work, especially as a method for forcing your opponent to change where he has his hands. It also helps if you hit harder than a spork-flung noodle.
    Last edited by Locu5; 7/13/2005 5:39pm at .
  9. Rah is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/13/2005 5:38pm


     Style: jjj, mma, bjj

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Look I pratice WC and ive never been taught any ani-grappling tech. If I want to learn how to fight on the ground, ill crosstrain in a grappling art (which I have). Sheesh, next well be hearing about the TKD anti-grappling tech...
    Same here i've never once come across any grappling or anti-grappling techniques and i've never seen any other students learning any. Perhaps we don't have "t3H R34L _ing _un" (did i do that right?) or perhaps we do and are willing to accept its limited applicability.
  10. beka is offline
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    Welterweight

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    My heart is in Austin
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    778

    Posted On:
    7/13/2005 5:51pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: BJJ and then some

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Rah
    Same here i've never once come across any grappling or anti-grappling techniques and i've never seen any other students learning any. Perhaps we don't have "t3H R34L _ing _un" (did i do that right?) or perhaps we do and are willing to accept its limited applicability.

    The problem isn't the wing chunners who accept its limited applicability. It's those (of all styles) that think they can jump in the air when you shoot for a double leg, and then trap your hands behind their knees when they land and, like, hurt you or something from there (just to see how bad it worked, I actually tried to do that, and I fell over quite ungracefully). Say what?

    Seeing as how you stay until the school closes, and you roll your little heart out, you're not in that same group. And in my noobie opinion, you're pretty good on the ground. Because you are willing to learn to grapple, you will succeed. But these anti-grapple jerks who think they don't need to learn it, but begrudgingly learn a move or two, they just won't be as good. Then they'll feel like dorks, and dismiss the thing that embarasses them. But you don't do that, so I really wouldn't think to discount your other skills because you have done WC.
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