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  1. gonchez is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/25/2005 12:29pm


     Style: TKD

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    did i miss where this was posted?
  2. Aodhan is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/25/2005 1:17pm


     Style: ATA TKD, Hapkido

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by gonchez
    did i miss where this was posted?
    I don't think it has been posted yet, it has to be reviewed by a moderator from what I gather.

    Aodhan
  3. shadowcat is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/25/2005 4:51pm


     Style: Shotokan Karate

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyCache
    That wouldn't even be legal, would it? It's falling on purpose, like doing a drop kick, right?
    nope, not legal at all......just stupid.
    but i have also watched ATA. they...kiinda make me laugh at times. watching them do "kata" as they call it.
    its funny really....a good point is that each school like this can be different in appearacne. USSD...uuuggh. one location, here where i live, teaches karate. now, you would think that it would be done in a karate type way. lets describe it for kicks and giggles, shall we?:
    the "dojo" looks like a chinese-style kung fu place. totally decorated like one. they wear TKD uniforms and learn what they consider karate. they learn things that wouldn't really protect you in a real fight. but why wear a TKD uniform, practice in a chinese-style environment and learn a version of karate that won't really help you?
    but my mistake.....we're talking about ATA.

    when i watched ATA i went in to try and find a summer job. i used to do TKD at a school that wasn't a mcdojo- this guy would tell you to make people cry with the power you used in each kick. anyway...i was looking for a summer job, maybe teaching a kids class TKD. ATA told me all i had to do was pay $800 for an instructors course and i could teach. they didn't even want a demonstration of what i knew. they wanted money.
    my biggest beef with ATA and USSD is all the patches. those giant patches shaped like tigers and dragons. every week it's like the kids get a new patch. it keeps them coming back for more, just like happy-meal toys. every week they get new patches. every month they test for a belt that costs more than most peoples' tests. and even if they're not ready the instructors say, oh, it iwll be good experience to try and test anyway.
    we have one kid in our dojo who came from ATA. he can't do anything with discipline. everything is "in ATA we didn't have to run. in ATA we didn't have to do push ups. in ATA we got 6 water breaks." the kid's kata, not to be too hard on him becasue it isn't his fault, looks like some random movement and a dance. and they get TROPHIES the size of them for moving around a little and calling them kata! now, i understand feel-good karate is big in america, but when they tell the people that it will save their lives in a bad situation, PLEASE! spare me. the justification for the huge trophies is "well they tried. everyone wins." that is why i dont' like ATA. then they tell you they are all high and mighty. and they have the highest standards. please. go to japan and see where karate originated from. or go to Korea and see TKD. do those people train like ATA? i don't think so. and steven lopez, america's golden medal olympic champion of TKD. did he train at ATA? i would llove to see those "high-standard" teachers spar Lopez.
    =]
  4. DSL is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/25/2005 6:06pm


     Style: MMA, BJJ, CMD, TKD, FMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Hm, I guess I haven't met ATA Shadowcat.
    The instructor course requires that you know all of the forms and one-steps from white belt through your current rank. You have to be able to teach everything. Now I don't know who or when you spoke with "ATA" but that is the requirements. I tested for my red collar in front of EGM HU Lee in '87, then tested for my black collar (certified instructor) much later. But at no time was it a walk in the park or just a cash cow situation.

    Patches? THere are a few yes. Judging chevrons, this let's people know from your uniform if you are qualified to center judge, corner judge etc. Oh, and the tests cost... around $5, mainly the cost of the patch. Recertification (required yearly) costs the price of the patch.
    Other patches show programs the student is involved in. I know that's a big can of worms for many, but that's what they depict.
    A side note on patches, take a look at any patch company and you'll see hundreds of martial arts patches, and the ATA doesn't use any of those. Sensei, Black belt, micro ninja.. you name it.

    The kid in your dojo who came from ATA? Oh, let's define an organization of 300,000+ members based off of one kid who, from the sound of it, had a lot of growing and learning to do.

    Trophies too big? Well damn, I think we'll save a few thousand and just get paper weights next year. Hell, I remember 4 foot trophies for champions at non-ATA tournaments, and yeah, I thought it wouldn't suck too bad to get one of those. You beat out a division and walk away with a 6 inch trophy... yeah, that'd put a big grin on the face.

    Standards? They come with each and every school, each instructor brings his/her own set of standards with them. Yes, there is an overall set of rules and standards, but again there is the human factor, every instructor is unique and human.

    I'd LOVE to spar Lopez, sure he would anhillate me, but hell he trains more than most train every day. Would it be fun and a learning experience, damned right it would.
  5. JohnnyCache is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/25/2005 6:16pm

    supporting memberforum leader
     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    You have to be able to "teach everything?"

    So some of the training's actually in how to teach?
    There's no choice but to confront you, to engage you, to erase you. I've gone to great lengths to expand my threshold of pain. I will use my mistakes against you. There's no other choice.
  6. DSL is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/25/2005 6:19pm


     Style: MMA, BJJ, CMD, TKD, FMA

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I guess my peeve is that some people find it very easy to slam a faceless entity such as Shadowcat's ATA. There is not one person up there called ATA, it's a huge organization of people. To generalize and categorize every member based off a single member you've met is pure folly.

    I've met crappy and excellent martial artists in every organization I've come across in the last 20 years, that's how life works. Do I say that WTF or ITF etc suck? Heck no, I may not like the low block punch combination beaten into me, but that doesn't make thier organization bad.

    As far as Korean vs American TKD, man oh man, talk about things changing. In the 70's no one would honor Korean certificates, well almost no one. I think WTF did. Now all of a sudden the Korean practicioners are that much better? The style is almost completely different from most American schools, almost exclusively focused on sport TKD. I don't claim either one is better, I just practice the style that suits me.
  7. DSL is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/25/2005 6:21pm


     Style: MMA, BJJ, CMD, TKD, FMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyCache
    You have to be able to "teach everything?"

    So some of the training's actually in how to teach?
    Definitely. I don't know about you, but I've seen amazing martial artists that couldn't teach someone else to save their lives. And I've seen crippled instructors who were some of the best instructors around, even though they couldn't physically demonstrate some of the techniques.

    Learning how to teach is a huge part of the process of being an instructor, huge.
  8. DirtyHippy is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/25/2005 6:29pm


     Style: Muay Thai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by DSL


    The kid in your dojo who came from ATA? Oh, let's define an organization of 300,000+ members based off of one kid who, from the sound of it, had a lot of growing and learning to do.
    That would be fine and dandy if it was only a small amount of students. But there are a good amount of kids with no respect or discipline in the ATA. I've been to World Champs for the past 4 years, and each year the way students behave and perform gets worse and worse. Want to know where the talent is? Top 10 Competition, and even then some of the people in the Top 10 are a joke.

    edit: my quote skills suck
  9. DSL is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/25/2005 6:42pm


     Style: MMA, BJJ, CMD, TKD, FMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by DirtyHippy
    I've been to World Champs for the past 4 years, and each year the way students behave and perform gets worse and worse.
    I see that everywhere DH, I see it less in Martial arts than just the general public, but I see that everywhere. It might be that we're getting old ;p

    I think the best thing we can do is be examples of respect and discipline, people learn by what we do... and sometimes what we say.
  10. DSL is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/25/2005 6:43pm


     Style: MMA, BJJ, CMD, TKD, FMA

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Ps. The 'weight' under my nick cracks me up. I haven't been a featherweight since I was 13 :) Good thing too, those damned lightweights are quick ;p
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