Your assumption is correct. I have nothing to say about the inner working of the WTTU or ATA. I haven't been part of it since the early 90's and barely active for several years before then.
It seems that things might have improved, on the racism front anyway. Good.
Thank you for coming to my defense, though. I never undervalue loyalty.
Originally Posted by Canuckyokushin
I know I personally haven't witnessed any racism in the ATA myself in the last 20 years or so. Occasionally you'ld get that one guy who was a jerk, but it was like everywhere else (though I think less people who enter the martial arts tend to be racist, as most of the arts are of an Asian descent (the ones I'm thinking of anyway, I know, I know, pankration (sp?) wrestling boxing etc aren't ;p)) can I have a few more parenthesis?).
The Oregon ATA lineage stems from the Sacremento ATA/WTF of the early 70's. Master Robinson/Pierce/Ajay/Vierra/Rankins etc. So I grew up on fighting in Van Nuys, Sacremento, Washington etc (no schools here then except ours). That meant if anything, I was the one Caucasian mutt of the group, I didn't see any racism in any direction myself.
One thing is for certain, if I do notice it? I'm busting their butt out of my ring and the tournament season if possible, if not more. That crap doesn't fly in my book at all.
Last edited by DSL; 7/21/2005 8:43pm at .
Reason: Me kan speal guute.
Fine we will and the topics will get harder.
Originally Posted by DSL
First of, what is up with the ATA so geared toward Family-oriented Martial arts? Iím a firm believer that anyone can do Martial arts. But bringing your spouse and kids to your training hall and training with them by your side. Come on! What, you have such a great family you can't live 2 hours without them?
Don't you think that maybe the ATA looses a lot of credibility of a hard fighting system by having so many families?
Actually, I don't bring my spouse or kids with me when I train, so I do see exactly where you're coming from. TKD has always been a solo thing for me, although they do come to testings etc.
As far as making it into a family atmosphere? I'd honestly say it's most likely to do with reaching a larger market. I do know of ATA schools that DON'T have the Karate for Kids program (ie the kiddos etc), they still do the traditional classes only. But most of the schools I've seen do have the entire spread of ages. One good thing I've seen from all of the schools with the kids programs is that they separate the training into different time slots. No adults training with the microninjas ;p.
I think one of the major things both good and bad about the ATA (depending on your view) is the fact that they do cater to all ages rather than the text book martial artist (aka male 20's etc, like when some of us started. Hell I remember if there was a female even it was a mind blower.) Some people see it as the kids will always have known the martial arts, imagine if you could have never NOT known a front kick? See where I'm coming from? Imagine that you are one of those kid black belts (stop laughing heh), but you get older and keep training... Next thing you know it's like walking, when did you start martial arts? I can't remember... how nice would that be?
I guess a big problem with children/families in the martial arts is people's perception of rank, and how to give rank to kids etc. Is the 8 year old black belt on par with the 18 year old? Hell no, but... if you view the rank as that individual person's triumph against personal obstacles.. Well it makes more sense then.
Belt colors... Heck, those are about as new as TKD itself. I like the cheesy old Miyagi response to what belt. Brown belt, leather, JC Penny, very nice!
I love doing kyokushin karate forms. I think it's one quality that Kyokushin has that keeps us looking a little traditional .But when someone visitís any Dojo in the world and sees that the hard work-outs are testament to our character as the strongest Karate.Then it becomes self evident what Kyokushin is.
Someone told me once that of all the Martial arts, kyokushin forms are the most realistic. I have to agree. I have to say that looking at Taekwondo forms (Poomses) does not impress me at all. In fact they send me into convulsions. They seem to have no clear logic. I mean in some forms you have to turn your back to your opponent. Whats that about?
Maybe I'm biased because I'm taught to hit and kick hard as though I'm in a real fight .Is that how you are all thought?
In some of our forms (the Songahm ones) yes you do turn away, but it's always either to block another attacker or after the first is finished. At least that is how I've always envisioned them. When I teach the forms, even the first white belt form, I teach as if there is an opponent at every stage. I feel that doing so gives the forms meaning and actually lets the student envision the technique as it was meant to be used. I'll do the attacks slowly as they learn the pattern, and get them to really really 'get it'.
One thing I've noticed with every dojo/dojahng I've stepped into is that everyone has their own level of intensity to the martial arts. From my own (ie combat form, not extremly pretty, but you have no doubt the techniques would work), to the flowery stretchy forms, to the person who is simply going through the motions trying just to make it through the form.
I, like you, was taught that my form was an exhibition of the techniques. So I hit like I'm breaking bricks, I stomp like there's a real instep to break, I yell like I'm going to kill someone. Although, due to that approach... if I take 3rd in a competition, I'm happy ;p. Though I tend to do a bit better in sparring competition.
Originally Posted by Aodhan
I am neither but I used to work in an department with guys who regularly used some of the seven words you cannot say on radio or television. I grew accustomed to being able to say the F-word without checking over my shoulder to see if my mother was coming with a bar of soap.
Originally Posted by DSL
There is a place for the ATA, and how it trains kids, I like the idea of teaching kids to control thier emotions and their bodies. Learning how to walk away from a fight without losing control is every bit as important as kicking the snot out of someone. There are a lot of nut cases out there with guns, knives and hot heads. It's important to understand that sometimes walking away is the best choice. When a kid is ready to get into the snot kicking phase he/she can go to the martial arts that allow more full-contact and snot-kicking.
Originally Posted by DSL
But I understand also the thing against McDojo's, when you concentrate on expansion you run the risk of sending people out who don't have depth or bredth to their martial arts training, but think they are hot ****. That can cause a quality control problem for sure.
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