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  1. Mercurius is offline
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    Wandering Daoist

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    Posted On:
    8/13/2002 9:57pm

    supporting member
     Style: Karate, Wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    ...and now I'm going to gripe about it. Anything I leave out, or any comments/additions, feel free to let me know. Laying these out as they come to mind, thought this would be a good forum since title misuse is often seen in McDojos.

    Japanese terms-
    Osensei: Why the **** to people feel the need to give themselves this title? Historically, it's had probably one legitimate use, being applied to Morihei Ueshiba, considered by many to be one of the greatest martial artists of all time. Today, it's being slung around and **** on by 4th dan like it makes them feel good.

    Sempai/kohai: How goddamn hard is it to understand that these are not titles, but relative terms used in addressing or referencing seniors or juniors? I had this down after a week of high school Japanese and two episodes of Sailor Moon, it can't be that frickin' hard.

    Sokemon: How come some fat, bald ass feels the need to take Isshin-ryu for a month and then add something he saw in a Jet Li movie and then call it a "COMPLETELY NEW SUPER EFFECTIVE INCREDIBLE 'HYBRID STYLE'(every time a martial artist uses that phrase, God kills a kitten) BASED ON THE MOST EFFECTIVE CHINESE WUSHU AND THE MOST EFFECTIVE STYLE OF KARATE EVER!!!!!!!!!!!" ? Of course, now that he's made this new "style" (let's call it "Gwai lo-ryu Baka-fu", for that nice Chinese-Japanese mix), he is, of course, the founder of that style and deserves some esoteric, inscrutable, grand-sounding title. 15th dan Grandmaster? No, that's not enough. Soke? Why, perfect! I could write a whole article on this term and how 99% of the westerners who award it to themselves don't deserve it and are completely misapplying it (actually I couldn't, because I'm a lazy bastard), but it's been done.

    Chinese terms-
    Sigung: Doesn't this mean "my teacher's teacher"? If so, how the **** can one be one's own teacher's teacher? Mind-boggling. Any of you Kung Fu types feel like clarifying, go ahead.

    General terms-
    Great Grandmaster: Oh, so plain little old Grandmaster isn't enough, I'm GREAT GRANDMASTER because I'm GREAT and I do GREAT THINGS for GREAT MARTIAL ARTS and I make GREAT AMOUNTS OF MONEY because I do GREAT MARKETING!!! GREAT CEASAR'S GHOST, what the **** happened to humility in martial arts?

    Korean, Filipino, Indonesian, Thai, Greek, French, Brazilian terms-
    Don't know enough about these to gripe much, so I won't. But I'd like to, really.

    That's all, I guess. Anyone with anything to say, go ahead.

    --------------------
    And that's what I call REAL Ultimate Power!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    "The morning glory blooms for an hour. It differs not at heart from the giant pine, which lives for a thousand years."
  2. Royal Dragon is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/13/2002 11:10pm


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I thought a Great Grandmaster was someone who trained a Master who then trained someon else to the master level too.

    Great Grand master---->GrandMaster----->Master. Very often the Graet Grand master has been dead for a long time the way I understand it.
  3. Mercurius is offline
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    Wandering Daoist

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    Posted On:
    8/13/2002 11:28pm

    supporting member
     Style: Karate, Wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Hmm... I didn't know it was an official title as much as something a person would award themselves. In my haste, I forgot to recognize that possibility. I don't mean any disrespect to actual Great Grandmasters who made contributions and were awarded the title at old age or posthumously, but guys like Marketing-fu master Leung Ting I don't have as much tolerance for.

    --------------------
    And that's what I call REAL Ultimate Power!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    "The morning glory blooms for an hour. It differs not at heart from the giant pine, which lives for a thousand years."
  4. Royal Dragon is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/13/2002 11:49pm


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    It'sot do much a title, but a recognition. It's the same as calling your father's father your Grand father.

    A Grand Master is just the head of his perticular family. If he is a Master, then that means he still follows his teacher.

    The title of Grand Master CAN be self awarded by breaking out on your own and founding your own family. You must have been a Master first as that is a position earned by skill and understanding, and maintained by passing that knowledge.

    Generally the title is given to you by your teacher when he feels you are ready to either take off on your own, or take over for him due to his advanced age.
  5. SifuAbel is offline
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    Hole in one.

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    Posted On:
    8/14/2002 2:14am

    Join us... or die
     Style: LongFist CMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Usually a person calls himself sifu to denote his being a teacher. Sometimes when you have multiple sifus under one sifu in the same school that person is called sigung. Its not really done much but a person that is a techers teacher can keep si gung in his title.

    McDojo, is it what you do or is it what you think?
    Give to Haiti relief. text "haiti' to 90999
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  6. Gezere is offline
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    My guns bigger than Scrapper's!

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    Posted On:
    8/14/2002 8:51am

    supporting member
     Style: Kakutogi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    More clarification,

    Sensei (lit Before student) means "TEACHER" thats it. It in NO WAY MEANS MASTER!!! Sensei is used to denote ANY teacher, MA or otherwise. If you were a school kid in japan you address your teacher as SENSEI. IF you are in college your professor is SENSEI. Same thing applies for the chinese term SIFU.


    Osensei (lit Honored Teacher) is a name GIVEN to a teacher, usually post humous, who has had a BIG influence in his area of specialty.

    SOKE (lit Head of the House) IF a name that is PASSED DOWN. If you CREATE your own system you would NOT be a SOKE. If you become the head of an already existing system then you will become a SOKE. It is very funny how many pple MISS this point. Anyone who creates a system then dubbs himself SOKE is a DUMBASS and definite McDOJO material. Especially if he claims that he trained in Japan before. NO JAPANESE would back this mistake.

    SOSAI (lit Founder) THIS is the title you would use if you create your own system. Example Mas Oyama is called SOSAI because he created Kyokushin Karate. The he left no heir to the system so there is no SOKE.

    It is the HEIGHT of bad manners in ANY asian country to insist to be addresseed in such fashion. If you understand the culture you would know when to use such titles. The same can be said when using terms like -san, -chan, -kun, -sama(rarely will this be used more in a joking fashion unless you are ACTUALLY address the emporer)

    I could go on about NIM in Korean and other asian titles but the mostly mirror what I wrote.



    Xiao Ao Jiang Hu Zhi Dong Fang Bu Bai (Laughing Proud Warrior Invinsible Asia) Emporer of Baji!!! THE FIRST LINE OF DEFENSE AGAINST THE UNITED AUSSIE FRONT!!
    ______
    Xiao Ao Jiang Hu Zhi Dong Fang Bu Bai (Laughing Proud Warrior Invincible Asia) Dark Emperor of Baji!!!

    RIP SOLDIER

    Didn't anyone ever tell him a fat man could never be a ninja
    -Gene, GODHAND

    You can't practice Judo just to win a Judo Match! You practice so that no matter what happens, you can win using Judo!
    The key to fighting two men at once is to be much tougher than both of them.
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