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  1. philby909090 is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/10/2005 6:50pm


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Freestyle vs Judo

    I was going to begin freestyle soon to help my bjj (I will be beggining no-gi soon), but, a friend of mine began telling me how I should learn judo because it has proven so effective in recent times, and that upperbody takedowns are now the name of the game.
    What do you guys think?
  2. Gumby is offline

    BJJ Purple Belt

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    Posted On:
    7/10/2005 8:20pm


     Style: Brazilian Jiu Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I feel that wrestling is best for no gi- Judo teaches you to throw with the gi, wrestling teaches you to throw no gi.

    If you can make the transition well, alot of the basics in Judo will transfer well, such as hip throws. As long as you're concious of shot attempts, you'll be able to use Judo just fine from the clinch, and if complimented with wrestling you'll learn singles and doubles.
  3. lawdog is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/10/2005 8:46pm

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     Style: Judo & Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    As for improving BJJ, judo will make you much better on your feet but probably won't add much to your ground game as the techniques aren't much different. Wrestling will make you much better on the mat, and will probably improve your standing game more than judo would improve your ground game.

    So, if your goal is to improve your BJJ, it seems to me that because of the nature of the game and the way it's scored, wrestling would probably be more beneficial overall.
  4. En is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/10/2005 9:09pm


     Style: BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Why not just do more BJJ? If you're just starting out, I think dedicating yourself to one thing is going to be much more beneficial than splitting it between two - even if they are complementary.
  5. chaosexmachina is offline
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    Unexpected Elbow

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    Posted On:
    7/10/2005 9:25pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: MMA/Pankration

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    There needs to be more good sub. wrestling schools. The kind that combines the takedowns and other attributes from wrestling and blends them with all the BJJ and judo stuff.

    I have yet to find a school that teaches me a reliable takedown. I've had to figure singles and doubles out on my own. I'm better at clinch takedowns anyway...
    "The depressing thing about tennis is that no matter how good I get, I'll never be as good as a wall." - Mitch Hedberg

    El Guapo says dance!
  6. Yrkoon9 is offline
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    Brock Sampson

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    Posted On:
    7/10/2005 9:38pm

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     Style: 5.56

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    If you are going to do BJJ :

    DO JUDO.

    Period.

    Wrestling is really really really good for submission wrestling x-training. In fact, for MMA x-training it is better than Judo.

    But for BJJ you need Judo. Why? Because with Judo you wear a Gi. In BJJ you wear a gi. And that makes all the difference in the world. Judo teaches you all kinds of things BESIDES throws. Things like gripping strategies, grip breaks, etc that have absolutely no equivelent in wrestling.

    Let me change gears for a moment. Osiris said that wrestling expands a whole new skillset. Okay. Perhaps for MMA that is what you need. But for BJJ (as the thread is labelled) why do something that is non-related? If I was doing ramp skateboarding I probably don't need to learn how to BMX ramp. Although you might see some of the same style of tricks on the same kinds of ramps they aren't as usefull as say...learning street skating tricks.

    I will give an example:

    A few months ago we had Homer Moore training with us. We did some stand up training in the gi. Homer is high level wrestler who trains with guys like Mark Coleman, etc. But with the gi on I could keep him away with one hand. In fact, just a few fingers wrapped up in his gi and I could keep him away. I nullified all his grips and he was unable to take me down. This is a damn good wrestler who outweighed me by 40lbs. He was simply unable to modify his style to the gi, and did not know how to nullify my grips. Had this been a Judoka of similar caliber, I would have been thrown on my head.

    What am I saying?

    I am saying that Judo is much closer to BJJ than wrestling is. And if you want to improve your BJJ stand up than Judo is the answer. If you want to orient your takedowns to submission wrestling and MMA than go with wrestling. Both have some crossover, but when it comes to BJJ, Judo is the bomb.
  7. chaosexmachina is offline
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    Unexpected Elbow

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    Posted On:
    7/10/2005 9:44pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: MMA/Pankration

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Yeah, Yrkoon's got a good point. Personally, for my MMA training I would need wrestling and no-gi BJJ, or the sub. wrestling combination I mentioned.

    Ask Anthony, he's done both recently.
    "The depressing thing about tennis is that no matter how good I get, I'll never be as good as a wall." - Mitch Hedberg

    El Guapo says dance!
  8. ImAlrdyNum is offline
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    aahhh...the colors

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    Posted On:
    7/10/2005 10:25pm

    supporting member
     Style: Judo & Sub Wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Osiris
    While judo expands on whats taught in BJJ, freestyle is a whole new skill set. It will expand your horizons more.
    Dude, what the **** are you talking about???? I freestyle wrestled for five years while I was wrestling through high school and into college, and there's nothing in it that I haven't gone over in Judo, including hip throws, foot sweeps, turnovers, headlocks, etc., etc.

    And Judo expands on what's taught in BJJ???? Get a clue, sometimes just when you seem to be getting it, you drop bombs like this.
    Last edited by ImAlrdyNum; 7/11/2005 2:34am at .
    Regardless, that doesn't change the fact that kickboxing is commonly known as fighting while grappling simply isn't. - Osiris
  9. lawdog is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/11/2005 8:43am

    supporting member
     Style: Judo & Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Yrkoon9
    But for BJJ you need Judo. Why? Because with Judo you wear a Gi. In BJJ you wear a gi. And that makes all the difference in the world. Judo teaches you all kinds of things BESIDES throws. Things like gripping strategies, grip breaks, etc that have absolutely no equivelent in wrestling.
    Don't most BJJ schools do grip work? The guys at the machado school where I trained occasionally, as well as the dozens of BJJ guys I've trained with at the judo club all seemed to have some grip training. Not so much standing, but on the mat. I assumed judo would be redundant in that aspect.

    I considered the points you made, and I agree that wrestling is very different, but I think that training with no gi in wrestling actually makes it easier to control your opponent on the mat when you have a gi to use. That's just my experience, I guess it varies.

    You may be correct though that judo might do more overall to improve BJJ simply because of the similarities or redundancy. But if that's the case, I would think he would just train BJJ more frequently. It seems that would be better than cross training in wrestling or judo.

    I definitely believe that judo would do more than wrestling to improve the BJJ takedown. In my opinion, judo is superior to wrestling for takedowns against someone in a gi (or even regular clothes). But I question how significant that is in BJJ because of the way it's scored. The scoring certainly makes tachi waza less relevant. Maybe I'm mistaken about that. I've never competed in BJJ. Am I wrong about that? Are BJJ matches ever won by superior tachi waza?
  10. MrMcFu is offline

    Badness will not be rewarded

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    Posted On:
    7/11/2005 9:03am

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by ImAlrdyNum
    Dude, what the **** are you talking about???? I freestyle wrestled for five years while I was wrestling through high school and into college, and there's nothing in it that I haven't gone over in Judo, including hip throws, foot sweeps, turnovers, headlocks, etc., etc.

    And Judo expands on what's taught in BJJ???? Get a clue, sometimes just when you seem to be getting it, you drop bombs like this.
    Arggghh matey, I see a **** storm on the horizon.

    Full speed ahead!!!
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