Go Kan Ryu, the rape of Karate

**hijiri** · Posted On: 6/03/2008 1:29am

I had a GKR fellow try and give me the spiel not long ago. They do not let you come and see them train as 'it may upset the white belts' so they ask that they can visit your house and show you the 'big sell' on why its 'one of the largest schools in Australia' and why they are 'constantly taking out national all styles titles' . The particular fellow was a 5kyu, had been doing GKR for 2 x years with no prior MA experience. HE RUNS HIS OWN SCHOOL!
And manages all the schools in 'his' area.
I understand that if you train hard you will get results. But this is craziness. What upsets me is the marketing ploy used to obtain prospective students. Its like telemarketing!
The shitty thing is people are falling for it.

**glenmore79** · Posted On: 6/16/2009 2:52am

I had a friend who joined to work for them as a joke (door knocking and fast tracked instructors program). he lasted about a week. This was about 3 months ago.

The National Championship tournament that they always win are GKR sponsored, The Judges are GKR and 98% of the competitors are GKR. Biggest scam ever.

Pyramid schemes are illegal here in Australia , I guess noones has been bothered to dob them in yet.

**sochin101** · Posted On: 6/16/2009 5:06am

Thanks for posting guys... the more bumps these threads get, the more people (hopefully) get a more balanced view of GKR and their methods.

Originally Posted by hijiri

I had a GKR fellow try and give me the spiel not long ago. They do not let you come and see them train as 'it may upset the white belts' so they ask that they can visit your house and show you the 'big sell' on why its 'one of the largest schools in Australia' and why they are 'constantly taking out national all styles titles' . The particular fellow was a 5kyu, had been doing GKR for 2 x years with no prior MA experience. HE RUNS HIS OWN SCHOOL!
And manages all the schools in 'his' area.
I understand that if you train hard you will get results. But this is craziness. What upsets me is the marketing ploy used to obtain prospective students. Its like telemarketing!
The shitty thing is people are falling for it.

The thing with GKR is they target noobs and engender a feeling of belonging (read CULT-LIKE ADHERENCE TO THE DOCTRINES OF KANCHO BOB) within them.
By the time the noobs realise they are being taught watered-down karate poorly, they are either instructors themselves (the 2 year example is pretty experienced compared to some teachers over here), or they are so far in, they can't bring themselves to quit. I mean, the belts they've ~~bought~~ earned in GKR aren't usually worth anything in the real world...

I've spoken to a lot of GKRers and asked questions like 'why, oh why?' and 'seriously?' and challenged the poor teaching standards, the slavish adherence to the tenets of Bob, the general delusion that what they are being taught is in any way useful... and I get variations of the following answers: I like it/it's fun/it's helping me get fit/I feel like I belong/I like the social aspect/...
None of the answers ever relate to martial arts.
Actually, check that... sometimes (and bearing in mind I've talked a lot of **** to a lot of GKRers) someone will say "oh, we do spar with contact/do train self-defence" but it's always with the caveat that their teacher is teaching off the syllabus.

Originally Posted by glenmore79

I had a friend who joined to work for them as a joke (door knocking and fast tracked instructors program). he lasted about a week. This was about 3 months ago.

The National Championship tournament that they always win are GKR sponsored, The Judges are GKR and 98% of the competitors are GKR. Biggest scam ever.

Pyramid schemes are illegal here in Australia , I guess noones has been bothered to dob them in yet.

The tournament thing isn't exclusive to GKR, though it is a pretty shitty practice.
Lots of orgs have inter school tournies, but they don't always call them Open National Championships.

As for the pyramid scheme, I think you'd have trouble proving that it is. I know they've entered litigation over here when a reporter wrote something they didn't like.

The angle I've pursued is from a consumer rights perspective... how fit for purpose is the training being provided?
Problem is, it's a pretty intangible thing... Trading Standards etc don't really recognise the finer points of LOLkrotty.
It's a work in progress.

**retrograde** · Posted On: 6/16/2009 6:27am

Lots of orgs have inter school tournies, but they don't always call them Open National Championships.

In fairness (and I'm in no way defending GKR, there are many many valid criticisms to be made of the organisation, I think it's just important BS make the right ones) the National All Styles tournaments are genuinely independent from GKR.

The people who run it are mostly karate folk, and many are of a similar ilk to Sullivan (ie they are from/founded non-tradtional karate styles and are thus not allowed to compete on the regular karate circuit [Australian Karate Federation or whatever it is]) but they aren't GKR.

It is true that GKR tend to make up the majority of the contestants in most of the NAS tournaments (depending on the state and the organisation's presence there), and that is one reason they can boast such a success rate.

The other is that they practise -- and only ever practise -- point sparring as part of their syllabus. Many of the schools and styles they're competing against -- TKD, kung fu, whatever -- don't do point sparring regularly. Even many of the other karate styles probably don't emphasise it as much as GKR do.

So anyway, my point is: boasting about their achievements in the NAS is pretty laughable, but for the reasons that a) they typically make up a sizeable percentage of the contestants, b) they're competing in a style/ruleset they practise exclusivly, often against clubs who don't, and c) point sparring is nothing to boast about. But it isn't correct to say that it's a club tournament.

**sochin101** · Posted On: 6/16/2009 8:50am

Originally Posted by retrograde

In fairness (and I'm in no way defending GKR, there are many many valid criticisms to be made of the organisation, I think it's just important BS make the right ones) the National All Styles tournaments are genuinely independent from GKR.

That may be true over in Australia, but we've only had NASUK for 2 1/2 years... you've had NAS in Australia since 1984. The same year as GKR was invented. Spooky coincidence?
Here's another:
NAS: Simon Burke - Tournament Director
20 Cottingham Avenue, Horsham, West Sussex, RH12 5HU
is the same as Simon Burke who runs this site:
http://www.gkr-crawleyarea.co.uk/
which features on the home page:

Latest news CRAWLEY & BRIGHTON NON CONTACT OPEN KUMITE - 11TH JULY
Test your tournament skills!
Crawley & Brighton Area will be holding an Open Kumite tournament on Saturday 11th July from 12:00-15:00 at Millais School, Horsham in aid of the World Cup Fund. Entry is £10 per-person.
Unlike a normal GKR Tournament, there are no grade divisions - competitors will be sorted in to age groups (mixed if under 9 yrs old) with bouts being judged according to relative grade - the higher you are, the harder you have to work!
Information and entry forms, to be submitted by 5th July, should be coming to class this week.
Forms may also be available to download from this site.
Updated 19/05/09

I know that doesn't prove they are connected, but... you know.

So anyway, my point is: boasting about their achievements in the NAS is pretty laughable, but for the reasons that a) they typically make up a sizeable percentage of the contestants, b) they're competing in a style/ruleset they practise exclusivly, often against clubs who don't, and c) point sparring is nothing to boast about. But it isn't correct to say that it's a club tournament.

The last GKR 'open' around here was held in Nottingham and was GKR only. The next one is in Hull, but is GKR only.
This info comes from a current, serving GKR instructor.
I know all that this proves is that Australia and England are different, and that I've looked at smaller regional competitions, not just the NASUK.

Also, clubs (not just GKR) have been known to hire a sports hall out of town and call it an National Championship, yet not invite any other clubs.
Then they come back to town, and tell the local newspaper that they've swept the board at some national championship. It's a decent marketing ploy. Not that I'm accusing anyone of doing that (without proof, anyway).

**retrograde** · Posted On: 6/17/2009 5:47am

Ah fair point, I forgot about the UK. Crazy how fast GKR has spread there. Like a bad STD.

Interestingly, they haven't been able to get it to take off in the States - home of the McDojo - with much momentum. I'm told it's because their sparse scout-hall club set-ups just can't compete with the flashy full-time centres of all the established McDojos over there.

**syberia** · Posted On: 7/22/2009 3:53pm

I just came across this, thier site is awful.

Though, i must admit, nowhere on the site do they at all claim to be capable fighters, unless we're taking 'a self defence' as a claim now?

Oh, They're holding a 'world cup' in August.

http://www.gkrkarate.com/events/events.asp?eventId=29

At the SNHC, Melbourne. It seems to be Limited to GKR only, but I'm sure they wont mention that later, when they're boasting about it.

**sochin101** · Posted On: 7/22/2009 5:04pm

Originally Posted by syberia

I just came across this, thier site is awful.

Though, i must admit, nowhere on the site do they at all claim to be capable fighters, unless we're taking 'a self defence' as a claim now?

The efficiency of their self-defence IS under scrutiny by Bullshido's resident anti-GKR representative (self-appointed).

In this thread, you will find all sorts of disquieting information:
GKR - GO KAN RYU - Instructor qualifications. - No BS Martial Arts

Not specifically about their 'self-defence', but that's in the pipeline.

**buzzbevan** · Posted On: 7/23/2009 3:13am

I don’t know if this site has been posted before

http://www.ilovegkr.com/

It is the unofficial GKR site. It is slightly more sycophantic than the official site.
One article that caught my eye was their views on value for money:

You get what you pay for
People occasionally express reservations about the commercial structure of GKR Karate. The organization is unapologetic for this approach. We believe that a professional service costs money. Our prices are comparable to most other moartial arts styles, yet we offer a vastly more extensive service. The money that students pay to train, grade, attend events and buy merchandise contributes to the huge international infrastructure that puts on regular local, regional, national and international events. At these events, students can compete with each other, meet the most senior instructors and mix with other students from far and wide. In most GKR regions, members can walk in off the street and train at a local club every single evening of the week. It's fantastic to feel as if you are part of a truly global martial arts style and we believe that this level of organization and service is something that students appreciate and are prepared to pay a fair price for.

from that it would appear that they are justifying their aggressive commercial approach on the premise that they are providing a superior service

**syberia** · Posted On: 7/23/2009 3:25am

Yeah, i've been looking through there to. I dont like this bit:

Strength through practical experience
GKR students spar with each other on a regular basis. These non-contact "mock battles" (called kumite) help to develop appropriate responses to various attacks as they actually happen, enabling the students to develop confidence about their ability to withstand a real attack. They are also highly enjoyable and are good exercise.

And

Confidence through karate
We believe that self-confidence and a feeling of safety comes from feeling secure about yourself and your own abilities. We hope that you never need to use your karate in a real-life situation, but nothing makes you feel better than the knowledge that your self-defense abilities can cope with most situations.

'Non-contact Mock battles' are not practical experience to test ones ability to withstand a real attack. Bold added by me.

Is this the belief held by the majority of students, i wonder, or a selling pitch?