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  1. AikidoDeadlines is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/04/2005 3:58pm


     Style: BJJ blue

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Converting McDojos

    I'm sorry if this topic has been posted before, but a search turned up nothing.

    What do you think about the possibility of converting a Mcdojo into a more legitimate school? There is a "karate for self-defense" class which meets once a week that I signed up for, to experience some bullshido first hand. The class is practiced basically without any resistance at all. The structure of the class is a warm-up, followed by striking the air in a horse stance, followed by various techniques like defenses against a lapel grab, hair pulls, ... . They have sparring once every couple of months, and it is no contact point sparring.

    After establishing a friendship with the people in the class, and the instructors, I have been trying to steer the class away from bullshido. I started out with subtle thing, like resisting techniques that other people were doing, and forcing them to question the usability of the tech. Lately I have been asking about getting some sparring gloves of the class, so we can do contact sparring. I feel that after a few more months of this the school might be operating more like a legitimate school, and less like a McDojo.

    At the very least, I think that even if the instructors don't change, my example might get some of the students to challenge the instruction they are getting, and try a more legit school.

    It seems like this method of stopping bullshido might be more effective than the normal bullshido.com method of generating conflict, b/c usually a challenge (even a friendly one), will end up with the bullshidoka stating that they are to deadly to spar.

    Just wondering about your thoughts on the matter/ any similar experiences.
  2. BSDaemon is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/04/2005 5:05pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ/MT

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    How is that school mcdojo? Remember, there is a difference between mcdojo and bullshido.

    I was once a member of karate club much like the one you describe. I tried to "convert" it to alive training by demanding continuous contact sparring and by showing them the merits of takedowns and submission wrestling. Anyhow, in the end, they kicked me out, and so I failed. But I have no regrets, it was a better way to go than just quitting outright.
  3. Poofist is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/04/2005 5:08pm


     Style: Escrima

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I think it's kind of a jerk move to try and dictate how a class should be run if you're a student, regardless of whether or not the class is worth a damn.

    If it's a shitty class, go find a different one. It isn't your place to try and fix it.
  4. BSDaemon is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/04/2005 5:21pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ/MT

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Call me a jerk then... But choking a five year karate "black belt" with just a month of BJJ experience was a priceless moment that I would not take back for anything. Better to go out in a blaze of glory then to waddle away with your tail between your legs.
  5. Omega Supreme is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/04/2005 5:49pm

    staff
     Style: Chinese Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Yes, as Budd pointed out there's a differance between Mcdojo and bullshido. As for you Poofist, I'd have to agree, it is kinda of shitty but you don't know the whole story behind it.
  6. FingerorMoon? is offline

    The man they call FoM

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    Posted On:
    7/04/2005 6:52pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I think what he's doing is far more useful than the Bullshido style of email bombing that tends to get used here.

    In many cases the school instructors may not know what they teach is ****. They're just teaching how they learnt. How can it hurt to be in class and suggest change ?

    We could always find their website and start typing DUDE YOU FONEYS ARE TH3 SUK !!
    The Wastrel - So attractive he HAS to be a woman.
    - Pizdoff
  7. Fantasy Warrior is offline
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    Misguided style basher

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    Posted On:
    7/05/2005 6:47am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Kata

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    People react defensively when you take them outside their comfort zone without their asking. Denial is easier than change. If you had them doing full tilt sparring you’d loose all the lazy dreamers.

    You say the class says it’s for “Self-Defence”. If you want to improve what they do make sure that what you think that should replace it with is actually effective for self=-defence and contextually orientated to self-defence (the 5T433T!). Just beating them up MMA stylee might impress us but wouldn’t be as useful as demolishing them with in-your-face verbal and determined windmilling.
    You are a total Douchbag. Train more, post nevermore.
    FickleFingerOfFate -08-21-2007 08:59 AM

    just die already.
    Plasma - 08-20-2007 11:45 PM


    Aikidokkkkakkakakakaaaaa
    Best MA website ever!!!!!: http://www.dogjudo.co.uk/
  8. Don Gwinn is offline
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    BJJ wins again!

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    Posted On:
    7/05/2005 9:53am

    supporting member
     Style: Guns

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Depends. Are you resisting in situations where it's appropriate, but they have sort of an understanding? Or are you taking drills and making them dangerous and ineffective by trying to show off like a jackass?

    From football practice to martial arts class, I've never seen anything precipitate an ass-kicking as immediately as some dickface who feels the need to go full speed in a quarter-or-half-speed drill and get someone hurt when he should be developing the technique being taught. Generally (not necessarily in your case, but nine times out of ten) this is done because the only time the jerk can take anybody is when the other guy thinks everyone is going to work at reduced speeds so everybody can learn something and get better at what they do.

    And generally, all they accomplish is that people get tired of it quickly and hand them their asses.

    That may not happen to you, depending on how good you are, but I doubt you're winning many converts if all you're doing is adding resistance to drills intended not to have it. Better to introduce the idea of going full speed using the techniques they've learned separately.
    *********************************************
  9. AikidoDeadlines is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/05/2005 12:52pm


     Style: BJJ blue

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Perhaps I gave the wrong idea in my first post, but I am definately not just resisting during drills. I'll go along with the drill for the majority of the time we spend drilling. Then I'll ask my partner if they want to try the technique with a little bit more resistance. There seem to be 3 camps of people in the class. Some people just say no. Other people try it, and when the technique doesn't work they say "well you would have been softened up by that shin kick, and the technique would have work in real life. You wouldn't have been able to resist the technique- you would have been in too much pain". The third camp realizes that their execution of the technique is flawed in some way, and then we work on modifying it so that it works.

    I am not coming out and attacking anyone in the class, verbally or physically. I have been trying to, very gently, plant the seeds of more realistic practice.
  10. Zeddy is offline

    The Eternal n00b

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    Posted On:
    7/05/2005 9:07pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: CM Boxing/BJJ/RBSD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I find this interesting as I might be in a similar situation myself. I left my karate school 1 and a half years ago to train mma.

    Visiting back recently, it seems the school has gone downhill in terms of practical technique. Since I had trained there for at least 4 years, was about to test for black before I left and had friendly relations with the instructor, I have a small amount of leeway.

    At the moment I'm trying to set up a small number of people, mostly the "up and comers" so to speak to do a bit of "mma lite" on the side to open their eyes a bit. I'd advise you to try the same.
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