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  1. patfromlogan is offline
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    Heavyweight

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    Posted On:
    6/30/2005 10:00am

    supporting member
     Style: Kyokushinkai / Kajukenbo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    H - as you train more your body will adapt and make it easier to train more. I talked my way into the Wado karate instructor's class in Hawaii that worked out three hours every morning. After two weeks I adjusted to it. First week I'd loosen up at the class then stiffen up by the afternoon. After a couple weeks I felt fine.
  2. lawdog is offline

    Middleweight

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    Posted On:
    6/30/2005 10:40am

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     Style: Judo & Boxing

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by katana
    I agree with this, but it needs to have a certain context applied. I know guys who are awesome at a Spider Guard in BJJ but it just doesn't help them become better at MMA. When you do MMA you'll eventually develop your own style that includes your own high-percentage moves that work when doing MMA style fighting.



    I don't know if I agree with this. I think in MMA sparring you'll use what works for you. If your hook develops into a reliable weapon you'll use it but you need to understand its risks in the MMA-rules context. It may not be a good enough hook for Golden Gloves contention but may be just fine for MMA where you are looking to create an opening for one of your other allowed attacks. Again it just comes down to what kind of fighting you want to do.

    Basically for me it comes down to this on cross-training. I studied many styles over the years and almost universally all the teachers advised against cross-training. They said it would be distracting, etc. If you you want to learn the full and complete intricacies of an art this may be true. But if you want to learn to be competitive in MMA you better be cross-training and you should be doing MMA sparring and not just isolated boxing, wrestling, etc.

    MMA sparring is the most exhausting exercise I've ever done. It's much more tiring than wrestling, BJJ, boxing, etc. by itself in my opinion (and the opinion of very hard core wrestlers and kickboxers with whom I go to class). I think this reason alone is enough to justify a focus on MMA skills exclusively when learning to fight. It seems to me that the emergence of schools that teach just MMA is relatively new (within the last few years). We'll have to see how these new breed of fighters do in NHB to see if this approach is superior to more traditional focused training. I suspect that it will be.
    I don't disagree with any of this. My argument is based on a fighter training in 2 or more "pure" styles for several years, preferably at an early age, then training in MMA. I don't argue that for the most part, a MMA fighter will do better in a MMA match than someone who trains in 2 distinct "pure" styles, but has never had to put them together in competition. I do think though that spending say 5 years training consistently in either boxing or MT, and either judo or BJJ, then training for a couple years MMA would make you a better MMA fighter sfter 7 years, than 7 yrs. of straight MMA training.

    But, this is just an opinion. I agree that it will be years before we begin to actually have a better idea which approach works best. Even then, we'll never really know because there are way to many variables involved. Makes for an interesting discussion though.
  3. Blitzkrieg is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/30/2005 10:52am


     Style: MMA Noob

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Chupacadre has the best avatar ever. I love you for it.

    I just started training boxing and judo, its fun! Play Judo, pull some triangles, get people to make whoooing noises!
  4. Tourettes is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/30/2005 11:07am


     Style: judo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    From what I'm gathering, most people's arguments are surrounding tactics vs. techniques. So can you argue MMA is more about strategy incorporating techniques rather than specific sets of techniques? The ends justifies the means rather than the means justifies the ends...
  5. Blitzkrieg is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/30/2005 11:13am


     Style: MMA Noob

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Yes, I'd say that. MMA is probably more a philosophy of attacks that are effective. But in itself that is sort of a style. Whole other topic though probably
  6. Ronin is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/30/2005 11:26am

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     Style: Shi Ja Quan

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by KumaOni
    Yes, I'd say that. MMA is probably more a philosophy of attacks that are effective. But in itself that is sort of a style. Whole other topic though probably

    Systems that cover ALL ranges of combat are nothing new, in fact, traditionally, all MA systems were like that.
    Specialization started after.
  7. Tourettes is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/30/2005 11:53am


     Style: judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by BatRonin
    Systems that cover ALL ranges of combat are nothing new, in fact, traditionally, all MA systems were like that.
    Specialization started after.

    Seems like everyone is is agreement that you need to find out what techniques are effectve for yourself based on your physical attributes and ultimate strategies whether that's from studying specific MA styles/systems and integrating them on your own or putting them all together from the get-go. If specialization is a more recent phenomenon in martial arts then is MMA the return to the core root of martial arts? Also, I'm only speaking of unarmed martial arts here - as lawdog said, there are enough variables already in MMA.

    Another question, is MMA the functional offshoot of JKD or is JKD just better realized in a MMA setting?
  8. Ronin is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/30/2005 12:01pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Shi Ja Quan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Tourettes
    Seems like everyone is is agreement that you need to find out what techniques are effectve for yourself based on your physical attributes and ultimate strategies whether that's from studying specific MA styles/systems and integrating them on your own or putting them all together from the get-go. If specialization is a more recent phenomenon in martial arts then is MMA the return to the core root of martial arts? Also, I'm only speaking of unarmed martial arts here - as lawdog said, there are enough variables already in MMA.

    Another question, is MMA the functional offshoot of JKD or is JKD just better realized in a MMA setting?
    Yes, in many ways MMA is a return to the roots of MA.
    Perhpas we can say that, JKD started the MMA wheel in motion, but I think that all it did was give it a well needed push.
    People had been doing MMA for a long time, wither it was through cross training and then incorporating it into the core MA, or just "puting what works into play".
  9. Hannibal is offline

    Grandmaster Sensei of Village Idiocy

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    Posted On:
    7/01/2005 5:27am

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     Style: Kyokushin and Judo.

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I agree.

    Mixing styles is nothing new. Many Shihan of Kyokushin in Japan have rank in Judo and other styles like Ju Jutsu. My only guess is specialisation came into play just to concentrate and 'perfect' on one area of fighting. The benefit of learning specialised styles i.e Karate for striking, Judo for grappling is that you are forced to be trained in all areas of that art and work on parts which you have a weakness.

    But if you throw it all together in a MMA sene: , you can disguise your weaker points and play more of your own game since the rules set gives you greater freedom of what you can and cannot do.

    And Lawdog. No. I cannot cut back on Kyokushin. Thats non negotiable. Let me say something. My insturctor at Kyokushin is a Shihan. He has been doing Kyokushin for 35 years refereed 3 Kyokushin Worlds Titles and trained with Mas Oyama himself for many years. No way I can give that up.
    Hannibal: The sworn enemy of dishonest politicians, source of entertainment on Bullshido and newly appointed Office Linebacker. Terry Tait ain't got **** on me !!!!
  10. lawdog is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/01/2005 8:14am

    supporting member
     Style: Judo & Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Hannibal
    And Lawdog. No. I cannot cut back on Kyokushin. Thats non negotiable. Let me say something. My insturctor at Kyokushin is a Shihan. He has been doing Kyokushin for 35 years refereed 3 Kyokushin Worlds Titles and trained with Mas Oyama himself for many years. No way I can give that up.

    I'll admit I'm biased, however, I didn't mean to imply that you should quit Kyokushin. All I was saying is that you should train Judo at least twice per week in the beginning along with Kyokushin twice per week, and if it becomes too much, then you can decide which to cut back on. You don't know which you'll enjoy more until you try both. Also, though it may not appear so, judo is a complex game and it's not going to be easy to progress only training once a week.

    If your reason for not training 4x week is because you want to spend more time with family or pursue some other interests, then I'd say that's admirable and healthy. But if it's truly because you believe that at 25 yrs. old you'll get burned out and sick, then, unless you have some health problems you haven't mentioned, I'd say that's just pathetic.
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