Posted On:6/27/2005 11:34pm
Originally Posted by alittlebird
Keith Hackney hits Joe Son's balls like they are a speed bag. Incidently, Hackney practices white tiger karate. There was this guy at the gym, little guy, talking about how badass he was/this style was. He was talking about what a d3@dly grappler he was; I thought about asking him to grapple but then I remembered that f'ing clip.
Also, my ex-gf was Korean and she told me 'Joe Son' is the old name for Korea.So Joe Son is representing. She said in Korea some people call TKD 'Joe Son Do.' People always said Joe Son was inventing his own style a la John Hess and SAFTA, but maybe not. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Posted On:6/27/2005 11:52pm
Style: Judo, a tiny bit of bjj
Joe Son was indeed inventing his own style, called 'Jo-son-do'. It was basically extremtly sloppy judo from what I saw. Of course, it didnt help that he gassed out on the way to the ring trying to carry that giant wooden cross that was WAY too big for him.
He was one weird dude too... showed up for a fight in Japan wearing a leopard skin thong
plus he was 'Random Task' in Austin Powers:
There are funny pictures floating around on the net somewhere of Joe Son all E-ed up at soem club with Huntington Beach toughguy 'RubberRaw'.
Posted On:6/28/2005 12:09am
Style: none currently
As has been pointed out earlier, deadly/maiming techniqes are a two way street. If the TMA guy can do them, the MMA guy can do them back. Even IF these techniques were the only thing that the fight hinged on, who do you think could better perform them: the fat TMA guy who practices on dummies and non-resisting students (probably also dummies) or the MMA guy who conditions like a pro athlete and consistently practices striking real resisting opponents?
What if your deadly/maiming technique doesn't work the first time? (maybe you accidentally slip) I'm betting you'll get owned by a good groundfighter instantly. What if you do gouge out an eye? I'm betting a tough adrenaline pumped grappler would still own you except he might not let go of the RNC when you start tapping...
In order for these techniques to become reliable, you need to be reliable as a fighter. No excuses.
Posted On:6/28/2005 12:33am
It's frequently clear to me after an hour or more of grappling full strength and getting tooled and dominated by big skilled guys that things like groin strikes are going to have to be trained FUCKING HARD (just like anything else) in order to turn the tide. ****, I've had guys knee me pretty damn hard in the balls passing guard or have all their fucking weight on my nutsack doing that or in back mount, etc and we kept going. Just making contact won't do it, you gotta make contact hard. I've had my ballsagnia sacked in soccer and kept playing, other times I've gone down for the count, just making contact doesn't cut it.
Posted On:6/28/2005 12:46am
Style: Arnis, WC, Judo
I agree. A groin kick by itself wont do much... has to be groin crush/stamp with a lot of power...
I always cringe when I see women's SD classes teaching to attack the groin... its a horrible myth thats propagated because its funny that being hit in the groin will floor every guy.
BTW most kung fu that I know doesn't rely on gouges and groin strikes.
Posted On:6/28/2005 1:17am
Style: BJJ and then some
It's not like kung fu guys are the only ones who know that the groin and eyeballs are generally vulnerable spots on another person's body. If I ever had to, and my hands were just right on someone's face, would I see about poking them in the eye? Sure. But I'm not going to hinge my training on it.
Badness will not be rewarded
Posted On:6/28/2005 2:20am
Cool, this reminds of Sammy Franco's school of facial massage.
Posted On:6/28/2005 3:07am
I always love these threads. Especially since I have no special relationship with either TMA eyegouging/groinkicking or any particular MMA venue. I will very likely train for competition, but not MMA (this is my point of view right now, so it might change, but still) Neither will I train eyegouging or groinkicking. For different reasons.
Not MMA right now because I'm not that into it. I enjoy watching pride. UFC kind of lost it a little to me. Too many fighters I don't pay enough attention to, not that it's a bad show. But all in all.. Although MMA entertains me and I see lots of interesting moves I enjoy because I love MA, I can't get involved to the point where I feel I want to compete myself. Mainly because I know I don't have the time or dedication to make the time I need. I'm thinking about crosstraining in BJJ to improve my groundfighting, that's as far as my mind has gone in regards to mixing anything. I'm also a bit of a timid soul and the big bad men scare me :(:(:(:(
I will never train eyegouging or groinkicking and other said "lethal" techniques, no matter how effective or simple to learn they are said to be, for a number of reasons. First of all because I don't train martial arts to defend myself. I train because I enjoy the training and despite being a bit of a weak *****, I have to admit, yes I enjoy fighting and wrestling. Because of this I'm not in a state where I day after day look for the most effective deadly, über technique. Also I look for things that may actually be a bit challenging to learn, because many times, that's half the fun. I want to be able to practice and train a lot, and I want to be sure that I'm able to do what I learn. To do this, I'd have to practice with some resistance and be able to apply my training somewhat alive. The problem with eyegouging and alive training, is that I've only got one pair, and they don't grow back.
There's also the fact that if I'd ever fight or defend myself with what I've learned, then I don't want to kill and/or maim my attacker. Chances are it's just a drunken brawl, since if someone mugs me, I'll give them my lousy crap and let the police deal with it. It's a moral dilemma isn't it. Many want to train self defence, but not be thought of as fighting/brawling thugs. (Rather enlightened yodas) When in reality you have to fight to learn how to defend yourself in a fight. My take on self defence is to defend myself from serious harm and control my opponent without giving him too much damage either. If that's possible.
Don't say getting kicked in the groin doesn't hurt. Don't call it a myth. Of course it hurts if you actually hit right. Hell I've taken my share of shots to the groin and it's rendered me pretty useless every time it connected good. But do we need martial arts training to kick someone in the groin? Likewise do we need hours on hours of roleplaying training to stick a finger in someones eye? It's not a secret, it's not a skill. It's a dirty trick which in my opinion has no place in martial arts. Teaching it as a technique is void of meaning, as you'd have to have been born a clueless adult to have never ever considered groin shots or eyegouging to be damaging to a person. And no one needs to TRAIN for it. Seriously..
Like I said, I love reading the extremes. It's often very black and white. One side claiming the awesome superiority of teh gouge. While the other side will confidently proclaim that you can't poke someones eye out or hit someone in the groin so it hurts. Please keep this thread alive with stuff like that :D
More human than human is our motto.
Posted On:6/28/2005 3:35am
Style: Bujinkan Budō Taijutsu
the best argument for this I've heard so far is that if you don't train these things they don't come automatically if you get in to a fight, that you need to get used to doing these 'coz you probably won't be staying all calm and think stuff through if some1 tries to slash you with a knife or so. makes some sense, though I think it's pretty much a reflex for every human to kick in the groin if one has a chance to do it at that point.
Hole in one.
Posted On:6/28/2005 3:50am
Style: LongFist CMA
Yes, a groin kick would not work on TBK. He has no balls to begin with.
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