Well I found about Larry a little while back and held off posting a review as he said that he would have some videos up. So I waited to see what his system consisted of, but when the videos were posted they told the viewer nothing about his style. He seemed to make incredible claims while at the same time was reluctant to give even a little video proof of his new style, without buying the videos. At this point, I decided to call Bullshido.
Originally Posted by leejunfan
Here is a link to Phil Elmore’s review
I looked for your review and could not find it, would you mind posting it on Bullshido? And is your user name the same on both sites?
Leejunfan, I hope you stick around our little corner of the Internet, you will catch some crap as we all do, the dialoged is very frank, ya that is it, “frank” is a nice way to say it…
BTW I edited the above post after guessing wrong about Leejunfan’s review
Last edited by Olorin; 6/27/2005 11:28pm at .
Wing Chun Instructor
yeah... I remember this post. Search a little harder and you will find my response. Larry was a nice guy but he assumed too much about me and anyone else who didn't fully agree with him. I gave a full review of 2 of his DVD's and also answered his rediculous statement about me. But I will say that he never blew his top and seemed to remain cool. I never blasted him in my reviews but I was honest with what I saw.
from Phil's review:
The problem with this part (which I went over in my review) was that the demonstrations that Larry did were terrible. He'd go on to say things about kicks, punches, albows and so on but his demonstrations of said techniques was half ass. This coming from a "Master". Only a novice would take what he said about these techniques as gospel. Anyone with any real street experience would find his claims silly and ignorant.
Perhaps it is a guilty pleasure, but I found the segments of the DVDS in which Larry criticizes other martial arts techniques to be the most interesting. His own mechanics are fairly straightforward and in keeping with what I already advocate (for the most part), so it was fascinating to see him pick apart the things other arts teach that he doesn't believe will work.
I have nothing against Mr. Wick. He seemed like a nice guy. But I think he is talking about martial arts from purely an American Karate point-(fighting) of view :glasses2:
He did say that he was working on another series. Maybe those will answer some of the unanswered questions myself and others posed. I look forward to seeing them.
And you are right Leejunfan he seems nice enough, he never gets mad, calls names, or says he is going to beet anyone up. I have no problem with him personally, and to tell the truth I have nothing personal against Phil, now I will make fun of him and say he is full of it, but I will not pour sugar in his gas tank or anything like that. I just disagree with a lot of the RBSD mentality and training.
I kind of think that if you are held at gunpoint by one man while another is standing close by with a knife and they have no problem putting you in the ground you are probably screwed, unless the two men make a major and I mean major mistake…
Now if you know that they plan to kill you or move you to a place that they can kill you in private, them make a move. However, I doubt any of us including Wick was ever been in this situation or can give sound advice on what to do. I guess someone should just look for an opening and take your best shot and then run like fu*ing hell. I think that this kind of uncertainty and fear leads some to theorize about a way to defeat this situation and come out alive but all of that is mere speculation at best.
I found some Larry quotes for all of use who were banned on PB
“Let me explain, a powerful man weighing 250 pounds may have the ability to grab a gun in a death grip from a 170 pound man and perform some kind joint lock, throw, punch or strike while ripping the gun out of the attackers hand. You may now say that this is a viable effective technique. Now reverse it. You are a 170 pound man trying to grab, joint lock, punch and rip the gun out of a 250 pound man. trust me, the result won’t be the same. What if there are multiple weapons? You cannot deal with multiple attackers while tying up both hands. Each situation is different, what amazes me is that we focus on the weapon not the situation. The weapon is not the problem, the person that is holding the weapon and those that you do not see is the thing that will kill you. I think that all techniques have the possibility of working, but what you must do is have a strong powerful friend point a firearm at you, tell him not to be nice, and try joint locks, swatting or grapping the gun. while trying to strike him. Let me no what happens. Oh I forgot, have another attacker with a knife in his hand and have him attack you within two seconds after your attack. That is the real world. There I no guarantees out there, but if you train with the wrong mindset, by not focusing on the reality of the street, the chances of being seriously injured or killed is high. What I teach is that there are always multiple weapons and attackers and if it takes longer than a second to disarm and attacker you may become the victim.”
“SSS is broken in to four levels, no injury, slight injury, severe injury, death. This concept fits in to all levels, hand to hand, firearms, the knife. You are not going to want to hear this but there is absolutely no strength used in this program. The strikes that are used are simple but unique, we only focus on the most vulnerable areas, the neck. I certainly do not no how to put this on a video clip, because you will watch it and think, what a bunch of bull, that is just staged. Phil enjoyed the hand to hand but was a little concerned about the weapons. Weapons is what I deal with best and that is what most law enforcement, security and military are the most concerned with.”
“My life is the martial arts. I train every day, teach classes, and meet a lot of great people from all over the world. To any one that knows me would say that Wick thinks all martial arts are fantastic. When it comes to SSS there are no martial arts, nothing from the style I teach, because the mindset between the two are so different. Does that mean that I think less of the martial arts? ABSOLUTELY NOT!”
“recently had a training military instructor drop by and we started discussing the training given to the military. Most is BJJ and some knife defense. I happen to have a 454 raging bull and pointed it right between his eyes and said you have one second to survive. He started saying I want to check you weapon, I want to check your weapon! I looked at him and said, would your enemy let you check his weapon? I told him you have got to move I am going to pull this trigger. He could not do a thing but try to step aside and try slap the gun away. I know what you are thinking, I am nuts, but when I have a trained military instructor, come in and tell me what he can do, I need to see it. Of coarse there are never live weapons ever allowed in our training area, when you put real fear in a mans heart, it shows me what he is, but it tells me that if this is what they are teaching.”
“I just finished a class where real weapons were used the entire time. Short 12 gauge pistol handled shot guns and pistols. As I must continue to state all weapons are checked. Guy, I do not want to offend you, as the people I train, really understand the training that they receive deals with the most dangerous situations you can imagine. And they have been trained in street situations that are made as realistic as possible. That is what SSS is.”
Last edited by Olorin; 6/27/2005 11:40pm at .
Guy deserves to be pistol whipped with his "empty weapon".
I like how he says it's the 454 raging bull. Because that very important detail proves he's a real man. He can be very vague about why the instructor "couldn't" do anything as he reached down, drew the long revolver, and brought it up to head level, but he's sure to point out that he's a man who uses .454 casull.
That blows his credibility like nothing else can.
To say nothing of the fact that no one who clamed to be ready for a real world situation would own a 454 Raging Bull or use one for training. It is the most impractical handgun I can imagine! It makes a 44 magnum look a measured response! If you all learn nothing from me it should be this, anything bigger than a 45 APC is too big to be practical unless you are in fear of a grizzly bear attack!
Originally Posted by Wounded Ronin
Last edited by Olorin; 6/28/2005 7:06pm at .
If you are in a situation where one guy has a gun and his friend has a knife what you should do is get them to argue over how they will kill you until the sun rises and they turn to stone.
Has anyone EVER been in a situation like that? Even anything close?
When I was mugged I was really surprised how it went. Between the **** in the movies and how RBSD guys paint the world as filled with rabid animals I expected something completely different. I was able to bluff my way out of it at the cost of seven dollars and a brief scare. I realize now that if the two guys had any intention of putting me in the ground no matter what I did I would have been dead before I figured out one of them was armed.
But I don't get mugged every day so my experience might not be something that's statistically sound. Maybe I had particularly polite and reasonable muggers. So, someone from the deadly mean streets tell me if these random "threaten you before I kill you" fantasies happen somewhere.
Another problem I have with RBSD is the reoccurring idea of the half-man/half-animal attacker who knows neither pain nor fear, he is bigger than you, meaner than you, attacks with single minded intention to kill, kill, kill! He will not stop unless you kill him or he kills you.
Has anyone meet this urban “big foot?” I have not, no one I know has ever meet him, a decade of watching COPS and he has yet to shown up.
Just a though…
Wing Chun Instructor
always!!! always!!! always assume your oponent is bigger, stronger, faster and knows more then you. If you underestimate him it can man you life.
Originally Posted by Olorin
The boyfriend of a former student of mine paid us a visit a year ago sporting and HUGE scar the stretched from his ear, across his face to his lip and another one near his eye. When I asked him what happened he said he got into a fight with a guy but the guy couldn't fight at all.... so he toyed with the guy. The guy fell to the ground and found himself a broken glass bottle. The man pretended to be hurt and when the other got close the attacker suddenly lunged at him very fast and slashed his face. The second cut nearly hitting his eye.
another story: a man was walking in the Bronx of New York. What looked like a begger approuched him asking for money. The man said no. The begger asked again a little more aggressively and the man still said no. The begger reached into his coat but the man assuming the worse attacked violently with a dozen or so strikes knocking the man unconcious. When he checked the knocked out begger for a weapon he found a sawed off shot gun.
Assume the worse and finish fast.
RBSD are their own worst enemy.
They advocate theory over practise.
They talk about the "stimuli" of real combat, but never expose themselves to it, or as close to it as possible.
They adovcate simple and basic tecnhiques, yet fall back into things that are, at best, minorly effective.
They live for the worst case scenario, but do NOT train for it.
They "assume" a trained and vicious attacker, but "train" with techniques that, at best, will only work on the untrained.
In short, they are the lazy man's crutch, a ficticious "la-la land" in which, aggresion that is never tested and "secret techniques" that are barely effective, are the answers to a violent confrontation.
That is just wrong, period.
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