Winjitsu.com's NINJA KIDS!!

**Wounded Ronin** · Posted On: 6/27/2005 12:01am

Whenever I feel down, I like to cheer myself up by running searches pertaining to ninjas on the internet. Tonight, I found Winjitsu.com's NINJA KIDS!!

http://www.winjutsu.com/ninjakids/

It comes complete with it's kid-appropriate "warrior creed".

Wherever I am,
Anyone in need has a friend.

Whenever I return home,
Everyone is happy I am there.

That's almost on par with the ninja wisdom that I read in the old Nintendo "Worlds of Power" Ninja Gaiden novel, where Ryu Hayabusa's father said,

When you're lost my son,
When hope becomes despair,
I'll send a star of deepest gold to let you know I'm there.

and

The spirit of the ninja flows deep, ready to refresh the thirsting soul.

Wow, that book really did have the power of the 80s. Man, winjitsu.com would be so much cooler if they just hosted a .pdf of that novel and told the kids to read it.

In any case, this web site has reminded me of when I practiced TKD, back when I was in third grade. Most of the kids in my old TKD class wanted to be like the ninja turtles.

Well, it dosen't get any better with the ninja kids. Except now they wanna be Naruto or something.

Ah, yes. The outdated, historical methodologies of assasination and sabotage...perfect for family fun!

You kind of have to wonder about why you'd teach something with that history and purpose to kids unless you were deliberately implementing some kind of self-mockage. I mean, what kind of shitty assasination technique is suitable for family fun?

OK, last thing. This is really funny, because it's another my-martial-art-has-a-bigger-penis-than-yours story. It's especially funny because it involves a shaolin monk, and it's usually the kungfu guys who tell the biggest stories about how some kungfu master defeated jujitsu/karate/judo/boxing/wrestling/whatever guys with such ease because he had the bow and arrow stance.

This is a story from when Jutaro (Takamatsu Sensei) was 26 years old. In various places in China he entered martial arts contests and was never beaten. So, he was recommended to be the chairman of the Japanese Association of Young Martial Artists.

Lord Ren, the uncle to the former Emperor of China, treated Jutaro as if here were his own son. He always bragged that his Jutaro was a top-rate martial artist. This was no wonder because at this time Jutaro had more than eight hundred Chinese, Japanese, American and French students. Every night, he taught 70-80 students. Even in the raging heat of midsummer, he did not show a drop of sweat.

Hearing these facts, a Shaolin kung fu master, Choshiryu from the Santo province, challenged Jutaro to a match. Choshiryu lifted a 248-pound barbell 100 times every morning.

Jutaro refused twice but Choshiryu would not accept his refusal. That night, Jutaro dreamed of a red giant demon who swung a heavy iron bar to catch a little butterfly. The butterfly effortlessly avoided the blows time and time again. Sweat poured off the red demon and in a while he fell down and yelled, "Enough!" The next morning, Jutaro conceived the butterfly dance technique.

Lord Ren came to see Jutaro and said, "Jutaro, Choshiryu has come again. What shall we do?"

Jutaro replied, "This is the third time that he has proposed a match. This time I will accept his proposal." Lord Ren said, "Thank you, this will be a great event!" Lord Ren told everyone he passed in the city and then informed Choshiryu of Jutaro’s acceptance. Choshiryu was 37 years old, weighed 248 pounds, and was approximately 1.9 meters tall. Jutaro weighed 165 pounds. The match was held in the plaza of the English settlement. With Lord Ren acting as referee, the match began with Choshiryu giving a yell and jumping 5 meters closer and kicking with the speed of a giant dragon.

Jutaro jumped to the right by 3 meters.

Choshiryu jumped up, down, right, and left within an eye’s blink.

When he came again with the deadly striking hand kick, Jutaro saw an unguarded point. He tried to use the crawl position blow. Choshiryu jumped up 2 meters and returned fierce kicks and punches.

The heated battle had gone on about two hours when he noticed that Choshiryu was out of breath and was sweating profusely. His movements had clearly slowed. The weak point of a big fighter – inability to endure long battles – started to appear. Choshiryu’s vision was impaired because of the sweat that ran down his face. Jutaro did not perspire a drop. When Jutaro said, "Here I come," with a calm smile on his lips, Lord Ren stopped the fight. The audience yelled for them to continue fighting. But Lord Ren could see that Choshiryu had no chance of winning.

Jutaro and Choshiryu smiled at each other in congratulations for having such a good match.

After the match, Lord Ren, Choshiryu, and Jutaro went to a restaurant to celebrate a newfound friendship, the kind that can only come from respect earned during such a competition as they had. Choshiryu praised Jutaro, while the younger man modestly returned the older man’s compliments. Choshiryu announced that he wanted Jutaro to be his brother, so they sealed this martial bond with a drink of sake.

There are few ties between friends that are closer than those of brothers in martial arts.

Of course, we know this story is false because Wong Kiew Kit claims that shaolin monks don't get tired, since they do chi kung. DUH!!!

EDIT: Also posting this as an article.

**Kistrael** · Posted On: 6/27/2005 12:04am

Winjitsu..., because, y'know...

...it, like, wins.

**MEGA JESUS-SAMA** · Posted On: 6/27/2005 12:26am

Ninja sword techniques were very unfamiliar to the samurai, who relied on a strict code of ethics for fighting with a sword.

This is really the only part of the page I read. I'd have to call bullshit on both claims. I can't see mystical ninja kenjutsu being any more different from what a samurai would know of than a school he hasn't come across (And really, that's what the mystical ninja kenjutsu would be), nor were too many samurai interested in the ethics around a fight. The only difference between a samurai fighting a samurai and a samurai fighting a ninja is that the ninja disadvantages himself with a shorter sword, according to this nut.

According to Ninja GrandMaster Masaaki Hatsumi, Ninja swords are shorter than the swords used by samurai. The reason for this was that a larger sword was often too big or heavy, making it difficult for the Ninja to run quickly or hide in small places.

Game point. Winner - the samurai.

**Lane** · Posted On: 6/27/2005 12:34am

Originally Posted by Kistrael

Winjitsu..., because, y'know...

...it, like, wins.

Warrior Information Network, actually.

**Lane** · Posted On: 6/27/2005 12:52am

Originally Posted by MEGA JESUS-SAN

This is really the only part of the page I read. I'd have to call bullshit on both claims. I can't see mystical ninja kenjutsu being any more different from what a samurai would know of than a school he hasn't come across (And really, that's what the mystical ninja kenjutsu would be), nor were too many samurai interested in the ethics around a fight. The only difference between a samurai fighting a samurai and a samurai fighting a ninja is that the ninja disadvantages himself with a shorter sword, according to this nut.

Game point. Winner - the samurai.

First point -- Bujinkan kenjutsu comes from the Kukishin ryu mainly, which is a samurai school. The Togakure ryu (the only true ninjutsu school that is actively taught in the Bujinkan), has a method of kenjutsu that uses a much shorter sword because peasants were not allowed to carry the same swords as the samurai class. However, the method of kenjutsu isn't all that different. The swords of the Togakure ryu were notoriously lower quality, and so it could be taken as a given that their swords would not be as good of cutters as samurai blades. The method reflects this, and the sword is used more like a close-quarters weapon than a sword. However, these techniques don't resemble a kenjutsu ryuha in the slightest. They're more like "taijustu+sword," so the waza that use the Togakure sword are not taught until one already has a firm basis in taijutsu. It's a safe bet that most of the sword arts learned in a Bujinkan dojo come from the Kukishin (a samurai) school.

It's also dependent on the situation as to whether or not a shorter sword would be a disadvantage. Iai is quicker with a shorter blade, and in cramped conditions it becomes an advantage.

Winjutsu is limited in its value, and I say this as a member of the Bujinkan. Particularly, I found the kids section to be full of creative "retellings" of stories Hatsumi-sensei relates in his books and basically propaganda to get kids interested in the Bujinkan, though most dojo refuse to admit people under 18.

**Siphus** · Posted On: 6/27/2005 1:05am

What a retarded thread.

You kind of have to wonder about why you'd teach something with that history and purpose to kids unless you were deliberately implementing some kind of self-mockage. I mean, what kind of shitty assasination technique is suitable for family fun?

Uh... learning martial arts is bad for a kid? Since when? And when did assassination become part of the ninjutsu curricuulum?

OK, last thing. This is really funny, because it's another my-martial-art-has-a-bigger-penis-than-yours story. It's especially funny because it involves a shaolin monk, and it's usually the kungfu guys who tell the biggest stories about how some kungfu master defeated jujitsu/karate/judo/boxing/wrestling/whatever guys with such ease because he had the bow and arrow stance.

Its a known fact that Takamatsu sensei got into many fights, throughout china and japan. And I also dont remember anything that resembles a bow and arrows stance in the ciricuulum.

This is really the only part of the page I read. I'd have to call bullshit on both claims. I can't see mystical ninja kenjutsu being any more different from what a samurai would know of than a school he hasn't come across (And really, that's what the mystical ninja kenjutsu would be), nor were too many samurai interested in the ethics around a fight. The only difference between a samurai fighting a samurai and a samurai fighting a ninja is that the ninja disadvantages himself with a shorter sword, according to this nut.

Based on what? Are you saying that all the worlds soliders today know of all the other countries training? What about when the british attacked america, they "knew" how to shoot too didnt they? But guess wut, they still got their ass kicked. Plus they had "bigger" weapons too. A shorter sword is a disadvantage? Maybe. But considering ninja at the time had more weapons than just the sword, and the sword itself had hidden weapons in it, im sure its safe to say that the scales were a little more balanced. It wasnt ever a ninja vs a samurai anyways. But thats a whole other topic.

Game point. Winner - the samurai.

A quicker more effective and practical weapon is beaten by a slower and larger one? If you say so....

-------

All in all, ive seen better attempts at ninja insults on www.generic-website-that-makes-fun-of-ninjas.com

A horrible attempt, and I hope the time you spent masturbating to 5 year old ninja kids was worth the embarassment of looking like a jackass on a public forum.

**MEGA JESUS-SAMA** · Posted On: 6/27/2005 1:35am

First point -- Bujinkan kenjutsu comes from the Kukishin ryu mainly, which is a samurai school. The Togakure ryu (the only true ninjutsu school that is actively taught in the Bujinkan), has a method of kenjutsu that uses a much shorter sword because peasants were not allowed to carry the same swords as the samurai class. However, the method of kenjutsu isn't all that different. The swords of the Togakure ryu were notoriously lower quality, and so it could be taken as a given that their swords would not be as good of cutters as samurai blades. The method reflects this, and the sword is used more like a close-quarters weapon than a sword. However, these techniques don't resemble a kenjutsu ryuha in the slightest. They're more like "taijustu+sword," so the waza that use the Togakure sword are not taught until one already has a firm basis in taijutsu. It's a safe bet that most of the sword arts learned in a Bujinkan dojo come from the Kukishin (a samurai) school.

Thanks for the info.

It's also dependent on the situation as to whether or not a shorter sword would be a disadvantage. Iai is quicker with a shorter blade, and in cramped conditions it becomes an advantage.

Most swordsman carried a shouto for fighting indoors anyway. Otherwise, longer weapons usually equal teh win, at least to a point.

Originally Posted by Siphus

Based on what? Are you saying that all the worlds soliders today know of all the other countries training? What about when the british attacked america, they "knew" how to shoot too didnt they? But guess wut, they still got their ass kicked.

I never said that samurai knew everything from every other school ever. I said I didn't figure the sword techniques used by ninja could differ that drastically than those from other samurai. If anything, I'd worry most about a samurai who had the free time to practice all day.

And your analogy sucked. There's a huge difference between a personal duel and battle.

Plus they had "bigger" weapons too. A shorter sword is a disadvantage? Maybe. But considering ninja at the time had more weapons than just the sword, and the sword itself had hidden weapons in it, im sure its safe to say that the scales were a little more balanced.

"Ninja sword techniques were very unfamiliar to the samurai, who relied on a strict code of ethics for fighting with a sword" looks a lot like "a ninja with a sword could beat a samurai with a sword".

It wasnt ever a ninja vs a samurai anyways. But thats a whole other topic.

So a ninja never even had to defend himself against rounin bandits? In the history of Japan?

A quicker more effective and practical weapon is beaten by a slower and larger one? If you say so....

quicker =/ more effective and practical. A knife is faster than a sword, but that doesn't mean I'd be willing to tanto my way through class.

**Siphus** · Posted On: 6/27/2005 1:45am

Originally Posted by MEGA JESUS-SAN

Thanks for the info.

Most swordsman carried a shouto for fighting indoors anyway. Otherwise, longer weapons usually equal teh win, at least to a point.

I never said that samurai knew everything from every other school ever. I said I didn't figure the sword techniques used by ninja could differ that drastically than those from other samurai. If anything, I'd worry most about a samurai who had the free time to practice all day.

Thats where the ninjutsu part comes in. Ninja are not and will not ever be as good as samurai in a sword battle. Ninjutsu is about surviving, which is where the dirty tricks came into play.

And your analogy sucked. There's a huge difference between a personal duel and battle.

When did I say anything about a personal duel? The point I made was that strategy wins battles.

"Ninja sword techniques were very unfamiliar to the samurai, who relied on a strict code of ethics for fighting with a sword" looks a lot like "a ninja with a sword could beat a samurai with a sword".

So a ninja never even had to defend himself against rounin bandits? In the history of Japan?

Ah, so which one is it? A duel, or defending himself? A duel is a preset fight, where both participants are ready to engage in battle and know who and wut they are up against. 1 vs 1, similar to a ring fight now, cept.. well.. they died at the end. A ninja defending himself considted of throwing metsubushi and running away.

quicker =/ more effective and practical. A knife is faster than a sword, but that doesn't mean I'd be willing to tanto my way through class.

If the knife had blinding powder in the scabbard, and you had 5 extra trowing knives, other misc tools, and the immense training in disarming and surviving fights against armed and armored attackers, then yeah, u might have a good chance.

**Lane** · Posted On: 6/27/2005 1:45am

Generally, it could be taken as a given that the samurai would be better educated, better trained, and better armed than the ninja. Also, the samurai would have access to a better diet and healthier living conditions than the ninja. The ninja was no match for the samurai generally in fair combat. This is why ninjutsu techniques are rarely, if ever fair, and often rely on the advantage of superior numbers or superior familiarity with the terrain.

It's a modern myth that ninjutsu is a combat art. Ninjutsu, and especially ninpo, are not fighting arts. Taijutsu is a fighting art. Kenjutsu is a fighting art. Ninjutsu is more about how to outsmart and out-manuever your enemy. Instead of standing your ground and dueling that samurai chasing you, you'd just as easily rather throw some caltrops down in the road, hide in the bushes, and toss some explosives at him... if you were found out. Most ninjutsu techniques focus on you NOT being seen by the people you are spying on, and getting out of the territory without having to resort to combat.

And then, when you examine Togakure ryu techniques, you find that the techniques are usually a form of misdirection. For instance, you might fake high with a punch only to turn it into a stomp to the outside of someone's kneecap. It's meant for an inferior warrior to stand a fighting chance against a superior one by means of trickery and the use of "cheating aids" like blinding powder and hidden weapons.

So, when people brag about the fighting prowess of ninjutsu, they're terminally confused. There are lots of arts in the x-kans which are good fighting arts, but these are generally not the ninpo ryuha. The Kukishin ryu has excellent weapons training, and good grappling training. The Gyokko and Koto ryu focus on striking. Shinden Fudo ryu is a very tough and fast style that combines both dakentaijutsu and jutaijutsu, and the Takagi Yoshin ryu of jujutsu is supposedly the style used to train Imperial bodyguards. These schools make up the majority of the combat techniques you learn in the Bujinkan, not the Togakure ryu. The Togakure ryu is all about specialized weapons, trickery, strategy, and misdirection.