Wristlocks again

**Omar** · Posted On: 6/27/2005 5:58am

In a NON competitive arena, wristlocks are damn near the only thing I ever end up using. The couple hapkido ones I learned as a kid kept me from being bullied in Jr. High and high school a bunch of times. I was a nerdy kid and got targeted by the kids who had "grown up"
bodies when I was still a scraggly 130 lbs. Put one of those 6' kids on their knees after he grabs your shirt and it makes an impression. Saved me a lot of grief down the road.

They also work great for idiot co-workers who INSIST on "trying you out" because they heard you do "that kuh-rhotty stuff". Crank it on hard and while their whining "LEt Go!!1 ow...ow....ow...." You ask them, "Are you going to lay off that **** at work or what?"

Of course one time I just poked the guy in the throat to make that point.

In sparring? meh. Once in a blue moon. I have much better luck "grabbing" people's wrist with the crook of my elbow between the bicep and forearm and applying the lock from there. It's damn hard to grab a flaining wrist but people grab your arms near the elbow all the time.

**Fighting Cephalopod** · Posted On: 6/27/2005 10:08am

One of my training partners goes for standing wristlocks. I've never in my life tapped to one (no gi), but he's managed to force me off balance and into bad positions to set up takedowns with them, so I'd say they have some use.

Interestingly, Beto (a Yamasaki black belt) was just at our gym doing a seminar yesterday, and one of the moves he demonstrated was a standing wristlock. It was done off of your opponent grabbing your collar, though; I don't see a way to duplicate it in no-gi/mma because it's doubtful you'd ever get your opponent's hand in an equivalent position.

**king of seals** · Posted On: 6/27/2005 10:16am

Originally Posted by J-Lau

"Standing wrist locks work best when following a few knees to the head"

Seriously though... its like any submission. If you control their body, attacking someones wrist is like any other submission hold. They work on the ground if set up properly. Marcelo Garcia tapped Popovitch this year at Abu Dhabi with a wrist lock, and lots of other people were using wrist locks as well. That being said, standing wrist locks suck because you cant isolate their arm/hand properly, so they flail and get out and away.

As J-Lau, plus

a) I will never attempt a wristlock if "there is something else to lock" (see wristlocks in BJJ.org: when they apply them?).

b) I will use wristlocks at any given opportunity if my opponent is armed.

c) There's nothing wrong with knowing more techniques.

**Sophist** · Posted On: 6/27/2005 11:19am

I'm surprised by the number of people who claim to be training wristlocks in an alive context. Apart from anything else, many of the people voting "yes, and we're training them alive" aren't doing MMA or a grappling art which spars. I do judo, but I wouldn't vote I'm sparring with wristlocks allowed; are all these boxers and ninjas and kung fu people really sparring with wristlocks?

**king of seals** · Posted On: 6/27/2005 11:46am

Originally Posted by Osiris

which is breaking grips

It's all about it.

**J.T. Hurley** · Posted On: 6/27/2005 12:51pm

Originally Posted by fatherdog

I don't see a way to duplicate it in no-gi/mma because it's doubtful you'd ever get your opponent's hand in an equivalent position.

It's counter-intuitive, but some wrist-locks designed to work on lapel grabs can be made to work at other times by bringing the wrist to the chest, then performing the technique. A good example is Tsuki Nikyo Ura.

**katana** · Posted On: 6/27/2005 1:07pm

Originally Posted by J-Lau

"Standing wrist locks work best when following a few knees to the head"

Seriously though... its like any submission. If you control their body, attacking someones wrist is like any other submission hold. They work on the ground if set up properly. Marcelo Garcia tapped Popovitch this year at Abu Dhabi with a wrist lock, and lots of other people were using wrist locks as well. That being said, standing wrist locks suck because you cant isolate their arm/hand properly, so they flail and get out and away.

I'm in complete agreement. I can only get them reliably when I have full control of the person on the ground. In class I can use any technique during submission/MMA sparring. I will sometimes try a standing wrist lock just to see if "maybe this time it will work" kind of test. Most people have a natural tendency to yank their hand back when grabbed or twist out of the way. They'll also hit or grab you when you're fumbling around with their hand. I put standing wrist locks at such a low percentage move they shouldn't have a lot of time dedicated to practicing. IMHO.

**eyebeams** · Posted On: 6/27/2005 2:32pm

Originally Posted by Sophist

I'm surprised by the number of people who claim to be training wristlocks in an alive context. Apart from anything else, many of the people voting "yes, and we're training them alive" aren't doing MMA or a grappling art which spars. I do judo, but I wouldn't vote I'm sparring with wristlocks allowed; are all these boxers and ninjas and kung fu people really sparring with wristlocks?

I do, but to be fair since I'm learning a new MA (the CMAs in my profile) from scratch, I have a few years on most of the people at my level so I can usually pull a fast one on 'em. If I didn't have a better base then many of my partners I probably wouldn't be able to get away with it as often.

I admit, though, that completely open sparring is not a big part of what I do now. At my school we normally cycle through a drill through increasing resistance/aliveness until it reaches the point of semi-free fighting, then return to the drill in a more static fashion to iron out an element we didn't cover before. Fully alive training is a fraction of the cycle.

For example:

1) Static push hands.

2) Fixed push hands with fixed steps.

3) Free push hands with fixed steps/fixed push hands with free steps.

4) Free push hands with free steps.

5) Sparring with push hands or just crossed hands as the starting point of contact.

6) Back to the beginning . . .

The whole process normally takes about a month to cycle through. As you can imagine, I'm generally rarin' for the later stages, but I'm not in CMA just for fighting skills, either.

**Ryno** · Posted On: 6/27/2005 3:05pm

I've used them in real life, when I used to work in a maximum security unit of Sacramento county juvenile hall.

I found that when the fists were flailing, it was very difficult to snag a hand out of the air, which is often times the way that the entry is taught. It's ridiculous to think that you can snag someones fist out of the air with consistent success. Also, some wristlocks are much easier to actually apply than others. I had pretty good success with rear wristlocks, but no success with standing arm bars.

Still, the approach that you need to take to be able to apply them is FAR different from the typical traditional approach. Here would be my typical entry to a rear wristlock: It would usually entail an aggressive check of the combatant's arm, or a bob and weave slip of the punch, slipping to the outside. Snag his right elbow HARD with my left, and yank it into my body. Push forward so that he is off balance, to prevent him from pulling away and/or punching you with his left. Crash my right hand on top of his right, pushing it behind his back. and getting good wrist bend to secure the lock. Immediately start walking forward quickly, forcing him to walk backward. Put pressure on the lock, and use verbal commands, as he dances on his tiptoes in pain. NEVER stop moving. Particularly if you are in the middle of a gang fight, as was the case whenever I had to apply this.

Just standing in one place allows the person to resist, and also makes you a fat target for anyone else involved in the brawl. Personally, I'd always move in on them once I had the lock. This would help to clear me of the flak, and would sometimes cause them to drop, where it was easier to apply cuffs anyway. If they stayed standing, I'd continue moving them to where I wanted them. This also gives you a huge psychological edge, as the person feels completely dominated. This factor is a lot more important than some people give credit to.

Sometimes as I'd get a lock and move them out of the action, I'd actually just give them verbal commands to get them to comply.

Me: "Does this hurt?" Them: "YES!" Me: "Alright then. Sit the **** on the floor, and don't move. If I have to come back, it will hurt a lot more!"

At which point, they would sit down, and I would jump back in the fight, to begin restraining more fighters. And I would still have my cuffs, if I needed them. And the funny thing is that out of the 5 or 6 times I did this little trick, only once did the 1st guy I sat down ever get up to get back in the action. And that was right at the end of the fight, and all I had to do was hard stare him, and he sat back down.

**J-Lau** · Posted On: 6/27/2005 3:45pm

Originally Posted by Omar

In a NON competitive arena, wristlocks are damn near the only thing I ever end up using. The couple hapkido ones I learned as a kid kept me from being bullied in Jr. High and high school a bunch of times. I was a nerdy kid and got targeted by the kids who had "grown up"
bodies when I was still a scraggly 130 lbs. Put one of those 6' kids on their knees after he grabs your shirt and it makes an impression. Saved me a lot of grief down the road.

They also work great for idiot co-workers who INSIST on "trying you out" because they heard you do "that kuh-rhotty stuff". Crank it on hard and while their whining "LEt Go!!1 ow...ow....ow...." You ask them, "Are you going to lay off that **** at work or what?"

Of course one time I just poked the guy in the throat to make that point.

This whole freaking post screams of Bullshido.