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  1. Toby Threadgill is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/20/2005 9:44am


     Style: Jujutsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Anonimity discussion and incipient flame war

    Quote Originally Posted by BatRonin
    If only you realise how difficult iit is to do what you ask...
    Fact is, these things get "weeded out" in time, how?
    In discussions like this.
    I appreciate what you're saying but I am a moderator on Bugei's Swordforum. We now strictly enforce the real names requirement and everyones ISP address is available to us to prevent multiple ID's. Meaningful discussion was crippled by the "white noise" of trolls and anonymous assholes like Cutting Edge. As soon as the real name requirement was instituted and enforced the kind of Bullshido happenening over here with someone like Cutting Edge stopped because we'd expose his ass in a second.

    (I'd be interested in what you'd find if you go check Cutting Edge's ISP address against others and look up the physical origin of his post's.)

    If REALLY you want to prevent bullshido, honesty should be at the top of the list, right? Attacking someone from anonymity is about as dishonorable as it gets.

    Requiring real names is not that hard. We do it.

    Thanks for listening.
    Last edited by Toby Threadgill; 6/20/2005 9:56am at .
  2. Ronin is offline

    Merry Christmas Bitch

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    Posted On:
    6/20/2005 9:45am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Canadian Shidokan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Toby Threadgill
    I appreciate what you're saying but I am a moderator on Bugei's Swordforum. We strictly enforce the real names requirement and everyones ISP address is available to us to prevent multiple ID's. The kind of Bullshido happenening over here with someone like Cutting Edge just wouldn't happen there because we'd expose his ass in a second. I'd be interested in what you'd find if you go check Cutting Edge's ISP address and the physical origin of his post's.

    If REALLY you want to prevent bullshido, a requirement like real names absolutely required.

    I am curious as to HOW you enforce "real names".
  3. Toby Threadgill is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/20/2005 10:25am


     Style: Jujutsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    BatRonin,

    Interestingly, the membership actually enforces the requirement as much as the mods. People talking out their ass invariably provide a detail that tips someone off to something fishy. Sooner usually than later a member checks their story and provides details we can check out personally, (Like I did with Tennenhouse and his aikido teacher Mr Gotlin for instance). Bingo......bullshit. Depending on the situation thay are either confronted and asked to come clean with proof of an ID, or their account is frozen. With their ISP in hand, major bullshit or an attempt to re-register under another phoney name gets them banned at the server level. Bye Bye They can't even see the discussion board online.

    It's a combination of vigilant moderation, real names and intolerance for multiple ID's that really work for us. Sure people can try to get around the rules but we make it damn hard for them. Something I have noticed about liars and assholes on discussion boards is that they all operate similarly. Almost without exception, they refuse to provide important data about themselves...Who they are, where they live and who they train with. When I see someone on a thread spouting questionable crap and refusing to tell us with whom and where they train, I hit'em hard and fast to provide that data or I'll ban them. Usually POOF! they're gone of their own accord or they sheepishly provide the info and stop spouting crap. It's amazing how people straighten up when they are forced to stand behind their words with their real identity.

    Not much Bullshido over on Bugei's Swordforum anymore.
  4. JKDChick is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/20/2005 10:58am

    staff
     Style: JKD, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Toby Threadgill
    I appreciate what you're saying but I am a moderator on Bugei's Swordforum. We now strictly enforce the real names requirement and everyones ISP address is available to us to prevent multiple ID's. Meaningful discussion was crippled by the "white noise" of trolls and anonymous assholes like Cutting Edge. As soon as the real name requirement was instituted and enforced the kind of Bullshido happenening over here with someone like Cutting Edge stopped because we'd expose his ass in a second.

    (I'd be interested in what you'd find if you go check Cutting Edge's ISP address against others and look up the physical origin of his post's.)

    If REALLY you want to prevent bullshido, honesty should be at the top of the list, right? Attacking someone from anonymity is about as dishonorable as it gets.

    Requiring real names is not that hard. We do it.

    Thanks for listening.
    If anyone has concerns about people using multiple names, please just use the "report post" button and I'll check it.

    As to the real names thing ... no one's stopping anyone from posting their real name. We simply have no facist requirement that forces people to do so.

    Hey, if that kind of honesty is all important, why stop at names? Why not pictures, addresses, where their kids go to school, what route they take to work? Proves you're "honest", right?

    Either you talk sense or you don't, whether you use your legal name or not. I myself have specific reasons I don't make my identity public. Are you suggesting that I am then a: fool? troll? harasser? web warrior?

    Maybe it does cut down on the trolls, but it also cuts down on the honest, intelligent martial artists who just don't want their personal words being attached to their school or style or instructor.
    Monkey Ninjas! Attack!
  5. Toby Threadgill is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/20/2005 12:00pm


     Style: Jujutsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by JKDChick

    As to the real names thing ... no one's stopping anyone from posting their real name. We simply have no facist requirement that forces people to do so.

    Hey, if that kind of honesty is all important, why stop at names? Why not pictures, addresses, where their kids go to school, what route they take to work? Proves you're "honest", right?

    Either you talk sense or you don't, whether you use your legal name or not. I myself have specific reasons I don't make my identity public. Are you suggesting that I am then a: fool? troll? harasser? web warrior?

    Maybe it does cut down on the trolls, but it also cuts down on the honest, intelligent martial artists who just don't want their personal words being attached to their school or style or instructor.
    JKD Chick / Administrator

    I guess we should just agree to disagree on this topic.

    I can't imagine why it would be fascist to expect people to follow the common courtesy of using a real name. It's just good manners. When you meet someone socially for serious conversation proper introductions are the norm, are they not? Fascist, hardly....

    Nobodys is suggesting just because you don't use you're real name you're necessarily a BS'er. It's just that only in anonymity does someone feel free to act like a troll, harasser or web warrior. With the knowledge that their identity is known, the bullshido of trolls, harassers, web warriors and other BS artists gets exposed. Isn't the mission statement of your site to expose such BS?

    I respectfully disagree that honest, intelligent discussion is facilitated by anonymity. In my experience it is the opposite. It is however your site and you are the one to make the rules.

    Thanks again for considering my position and responding to my input.
  6. DCS is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/20/2005 12:11pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: 柔道

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    But Mr. Threadgill,

    What if a poster is harrassed (in the real world) because his/her identity has become public?
  7. JKDChick is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/20/2005 12:24pm

    staff
     Style: JKD, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Absolutely we just disagree about it. But please note that while it means that I cannot and will not post on YOUR board (for the reason sited, plus others -- I already get death threats right now) you can come here and dance around on your "moral high ground" soapbox.

    In SOME CASES, anonymity makes it possible to state the honest opinon that would be stifled otherwise. It makes more work for the staff, sorting out trolls and multiples, but I think it's a small price to pay.
    Monkey Ninjas! Attack!
  8. JKDChick is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/20/2005 12:38pm

    staff
     Style: JKD, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    On a further note, our legal staff has pointed out that making names available through the site puts Bullshido in the liability loop, should a fight/injury insue from actions/posts on the board.

    So, that's NOT happening.
    Monkey Ninjas! Attack!
  9. Ronin is offline

    Merry Christmas Bitch

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    Posted On:
    6/20/2005 12:50pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Canadian Shidokan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by JKDChick
    On a further note, our legal staff has pointed out that making names available through the site puts Bullshido in the liability loop, should a fight/injury insue from actions/posts on the board.

    So, that's NOT happening.
    Thanks to the senior admin for make it understood in a way that ALL can understand.
  10. Toby Threadgill is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/20/2005 1:04pm


     Style: Jujutsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by JKDChick
    Absolutely we just disagree about it. But please note that while it means that I cannot and will not post on YOUR board (for the reason sited, plus others -- I already get death threats right now) you can come here and dance around on your "moral high ground" soapbox.
    Now wait one second. I have not been rude to you. I never accused you of not having any morals. And btw, what's wrong with decency and courtesy? I politely inquired here why you guys chose the rules you do. A mod responded and inquired how we managed what we do at Bugei's Swordforum. I simply answered him with our experience and details. I respectfully thanked you for considering my opinion and acknowledged that you make your rules and are within your rights to do whatever you want even if my experience is different. Now you respond with dismissive and rude sarcasm. What's with that?

    Using my real name, I've only gotten a genuine threat once because if someone threatens me via the internet I have an ISP and can simply send it to the police. You might be surprised how seriously the police and internet service providers take such behavior. The only guy that has ever made a real threat got a terse phone call from the cops the next day. He backpeddaled like crazy, His ISP dumped him for violating their standards of conduct and he has never been heard from again. All of us have that right. Being In Canada maybe the legalities are different and this explains your choices.

    I have respectfully agreed to disagree with you. Can't you respectfully agree to disagree with me.....

    Hoping this is just a misunderstanding.....
    Last edited by Toby Threadgill; 6/20/2005 1:11pm at .
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