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  1. LLL is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/08/2005 5:29pm

    supporting member
     Style: None

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by daGorilla
    I have no idea what their relationship with one another is.

    However, I never got the impression Jay was anything other than a co-seminar teacher with Dillman and Presas.

    Dillman is definitely a money whore though. According to my instructor (the guy that arranged one of the seminars), Dillman was asking about money practically as soon as he stepped off the plane.

    He also spent as much time pimping his books as he did teaching technique. I heard he was better the next year, or so I heard.

    -daGorilla
    Wellll... I think Wally Jay's son Leon is pretty highly ranked in Dillman's 'let's shoot magic beams out of our eyes' system.

    So I think it's more than that.
  2. patfromlogan is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/10/2005 7:10pm

    supporting member
     Style: Kyokushinkai / Kajukenbo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Zendetta
    Hey Pat, you ever hear of the "Crazy Dragons"?
    Is that where Kimo and Ernie Reyes beat up the bad guys?
    "Preparing mentally, the most important thing is, if you aren't doing it for the love of it, then don't do it." - Benny Urquidez
  3. tgace is online now
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    Posted On:
    7/12/2005 4:10pm


     Style: Arnis/Kenpo hybrid

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Was Wally Jay one of the guys in the mix when Remy Presas started Modern Arnis or just Dillman? Were they just seminar partners or is their stuff "part" of Modern Arnis.
    Last edited by tgace; 7/12/2005 4:13pm at .
  4. grizzledot is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/04/2011 3:46pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: FMA / JJ / WC

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Yo, sorry for bringing up a super-old topic... but I feel that nobody has come to Prof. Jay's defense. I think that he has been mis-represented in general. I first met him in the late 90's as I lived a block away from his dojo, and also there was an Alameda high class and basically everybody in the area knows of Wally Jay or SCJJ through association.

    Leon is Prof. Jay's son and he went the more commercial/Dillman route. I was told through the grapevine Prof. Jay was not too happy about this direction, but as to why he didn't put his foot down I don't know enough to comment on. Maybe he was just being a parent and backing his son, idk.... and now that he has passed on, we might never know.

    What I do know though, through my own conversations with Prof. Jay and learning from him/his instructors is that contrary to what you may think from all the videos on youtube, he did not run around just trying to finger-lock everyone. The only reason you always see that is because by the time the internet/youtube was popular he was to old to roll around on the mat himself... also people post what interests them and it is unfair to judge an entire art off of what somebody posts when they think a small segment is "cool".

    At the dojo we were taught that finger-locks, small joint manipulation, pressure points, etc. were ONLY useful if the person was sloppy and gave you the opening, and even then it varies from person to person... they were VERY clear about this in classes. They were big on technique, and Jay would use these things after distracting a person with other movements and surprising you with something tiny and gain control when you least expected it.

    A lot of the videos I've seen online were out of context, where he was just doing a demo to show what can be achieved, as he was a very friendly person. I've noticed people these around days seem to think that always grimacing and presenting yourself as a tough-guy automatically = being "legit". I was always taught the tougher person does not need to advertise, and believe me I grew up around some scary people who were also the nicest, most playful people ever.

    There are different instructors trying to achieve different things in that community also, ranging from simple self-defense, to guys who competed in judo matches, etc. Sadly, there are also people running around claiming to know SCJJ, and giving Prof. Jay a bad name.

    Jay was big on cross-training and felt the SCJJ concepts could add to anybody's art, just look at his history and you'll see why he came up with it. He took trad JJ and "tightened it up" because he knew from fighting all the time that it was sloppy/lacking, and he was always trying things out and tailoring and learning new things... they constantly met up with other folks and tried their stuff. He also brought his art to the mainland because the trad schools in Hawaii didn't like that he made them look bad and was starting to take their students.
    Last edited by grizzledot; 8/04/2011 3:55pm at . Reason: I edited after I noticed a couple of spelling errors :)
  5. CaseyRyback is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/04/2011 8:55pm


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Excellent points Grizzle. It's an utter shame that some here can bash Prof. Jay. The guy was an admitted teacher/influence to Bruce Lee, Guro Inosanto, and Remy Presas. He was one of the first (before Bruce) to encourage cross training in the martial arts community.

    RIP Prof Jay.
  6. Rock Ape is online now
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    Watch and Shoot !

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    Posted On:
    8/05/2011 9:07am

    staff
     

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Have you two quite finished blowing smoke up this guy's trouser leg ?

    Edit:

    Moved from the encyclopedia forum which is where the thread originated back before it became a discussion platform for wiki/encyclopedia entries.
    Last edited by Rock Ape; 8/05/2011 9:12am at .
    "To sin by silence when one should protest makes cowards out of men".

    ~Ella Wheeler
  7. grizzledot is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/05/2011 2:11pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: FMA / JJ / WC

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Rock Ape View Post
    Have you two quite finished blowing smoke up this guy's trouser leg ?

    Edit:

    Moved from the encyclopedia forum which is where the thread originated back before it became a discussion platform for wiki/encyclopedia entries.
    Yeah, I don't even know what that means, but I'm going to go ahead and guess it would be said with a pompous British accent.
  8. cualltaigh is online now
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    Posted On:
    8/06/2011 9:50am


     Style: BJJ, MMA, JJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by grizzledot View Post
    At the dojo we were taught that finger-locks, small joint manipulation, pressure points, etc. were ONLY useful if the person was sloppy and gave you the opening, and even then it varies from person to person... they were VERY clear about this in classes. They were big on technique, and Jay would use these things after distracting a person with other movements and surprising you with something tiny and gain control when you least expected it.
    I think this is true for most trad jujitsu, and the art of atemi waza (or distracting) is paramount before most of what we learn (which we practice more because it is hard to master). My Shihan was close with Professor Jay and we were devastated to hear of his passing.
  9. crappler is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/06/2011 12:40pm


     Style: Judo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    He hurt my finger. I heard he actually used to really throw people around back in the day. I think breaking fingers is a good skill.
    "We often joke -- and we really wish it were a joke -- that you will only encounter two basic problems with your 'self-defense' training.
    1) That it doesn't work
    2) That it does work"
    -Animal MacYoung
  10. grizzledot is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/07/2011 3:24am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: FMA / JJ / WC

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Yeah, I think the misconception is he was like, "Hi, my name is Wally Jay... I'm going to throw you around by your finger now."... but in all actuality it was just another trick he had up his sleeve if you were sloppy.

    More pain is cause BEFORE the bone breaks then after it breaks. It's psychological.
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