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  1. MattJ is offline

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    Mar 2005
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    Posted On:
    6/27/2005 9:13pm


     Style: JKD , Spirit Fingers

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    As far as stand up/small joint manipulation, Wally Jay is the man. Very influential in his day, with his "small circle" theory being assimilated by the likes of Bruce Lee and Ed Parker. I have a few of his instructional videos, and he has some very good concepts as far as SJM goes.

    Pretty much all the SJM in American Kenpo is based on Wally Jay's theories.

    LOOK OUT!!!

    *ducks to avoid rotten vegetables thrown by everyone for mentioning EP and/or SJM*
  2. punchingdummy is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/27/2005 9:53pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: TSK

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryno
    Yup. Throw in the headbutting, downward elbow spikes and eyegouging, and it's a whole different ball of wax.
    ...and neck/spine attacks, front knee attacks, throat attacks, biting, stomps, groin attacks, a variety of fish-hooking, edged weapons, sticks, etc. etc.
  3. Freddy is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/28/2005 8:07pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Be Happy

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by punchingdummy
    This tendency for certain Bullshido members to get trapped in the MT/BJJ paradigm prevents them from objectively analyzing different perspectives, and from doing it under different contexts.
    I totally agree.

    --------------------

    I would highly recomend some of the good books out there on studying the 'ritual' of many street confrontations.

    Its usually two guys are arguing and the next thing you see is the other guy clubbering the other with a pre-emptive strike and the fight is already over. No challenges or anything. But there are alot of body languages and other signals that are often displayed befor any hitting occurs.
    Last edited by Freddy; 6/28/2005 8:13pm at .
    Ghost of Charles Dickens
  4. patfromlogan is offline
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    Heavyweight

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    Hilo Island of Hawaii
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    Posted On:
    6/29/2005 9:39am

    supporting member
     Style: Kyokushinkai / Kajukenbo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by daGorilla
    More likely the first 'commercialized' MMA.

    Martial arts have been around too long to give a modern art like Kajukenbo that distinction.

    -daGorilla
    Commercialized? The early Kajukenbo schools were not cmmercial in any sense. The schools weren't the source of income for the instructors. They drove away most students (Lessons aren't over until there's blood on the floor - Adriano Emperado).
  5. Zendetta is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/29/2005 10:07am

    Join us... or die
     Style: MMA, functional JKD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Hey Pat, you ever hear of the "Crazy Dragons"?
    "You know what I like about you, William? You like guns AND meditation."
  6. daGorilla is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/29/2005 10:50am


     Style: Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by patfromlogan
    Commercialized? The early Kajukenbo schools were not cmmercial in any sense. The schools weren't the source of income for the instructors. They drove away most students (Lessons aren't over until there's blood on the floor - Adriano Emperado).
    I didn't mean commercialized in any negative sense. My point was that they were/are not, by any stretch of the imagination in the 2000+ years of history in the martial arts, the "first MMA".

    Nothing against Kajukenbo. What little I've seen (mainly courtesy of tournaments) seemed decent.

    -daGorilla
  7. patfromlogan is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/29/2005 11:40am

    supporting member
     Style: Kyokushinkai / Kajukenbo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I kinda misread your comment, I see.
    I did think that were probably the first in setting out to combine all ranges from trad styles, that I knew of. But it looks like I'm wrong...
    http://www.acskarate.com/seifu/whatis.html
    "Professor Okazaki eventually returned to Hawaii and formed an eclectic system which he called "Danzan Ryu". This system included Judo, Jujitsu, Hawaiian Lua, Okinawan Karate, Chinese Kung-Fu, and American Wrestling. Breaking with tradition, Okazaki taught not only the Japanese, but any and all races."

    Okazaki was the big influence in Hawaii and California in the early days - William Chow's brother trained under him, for instance. There's lots of lineage Judo/JJ that are from his lineage, including Wally Jay, I think (gotta get back to work...) And Henry was an influence on Kajukenbo's development.
  8. daGorilla is offline

    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    6/29/2005 2:58pm


     Style: Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by patfromlogan
    I kinda misread your comment, I see.
    I did think that were probably the first in setting out to combine all ranges from trad styles, that I knew of. But it looks like I'm wrong...
    http://www.acskarate.com/seifu/whatis.html
    "Professor Okazaki eventually returned to Hawaii and formed an eclectic system which he called "Danzan Ryu". This system included Judo, Jujitsu, Hawaiian Lua, Okinawan Karate, Chinese Kung-Fu, and American Wrestling. Breaking with tradition, Okazaki taught not only the Japanese, but any and all races."

    Okazaki was the big influence in Hawaii and California in the early days - William Chow's brother trained under him, for instance. There's lots of lineage Judo/JJ that are from his lineage, including Wally Jay, I think (gotta get back to work...) And Henry was an influence on Kajukenbo's development.
    No problemo. I should have been clearer in my initial post.

    That's a nice web-site.

    Anyone been to any of their dojos? (Just curious).

    -daGorilla
  9. LLL is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/07/2005 1:52pm

    supporting member
     Style: None

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Jay's credibility is seriously hurt by his association with Dillman...

    Just saying...
  10. daGorilla is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/07/2005 2:59pm


     Style: Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by LLL
    Jay's credibility is seriously hurt by his association with Dillman...

    Just saying...
    I have no idea what their relationship with one another is.

    However, I never got the impression Jay was anything other than a co-seminar teacher with Dillman and Presas.

    Dillman is definitely a money whore though. According to my instructor (the guy that arranged one of the seminars), Dillman was asking about money practically as soon as he stepped off the plane.

    He also spent as much time pimping his books as he did teaching technique. I heard he was better the next year, or so I heard.

    -daGorilla
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